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God is more responsible for sin than most sinners

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by PopeADope, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I can think of countless times where I didn't just reject the Catholic Church. I passionately hated the Catholic Church and the Bible!

    On not a single of those occasions was I aware that I was rejecting the truth.

    Since I know from personal experience that a person can hate Christianity, hate the Bible, hate the God of the Bible, and be an atheist, totally unaware that they are rejecting "God", or "Truth", that convinces me that most people who reject Jesus, Christianity, or the Bible, are not aware they are rejecting God or truth.

    So, my question for hell believers, does a person deserve eternal separation from God, eternal misery without hope for the future, because of a crime they were unaware of committing?

    If I died in high school I would have died a criminal, violent felon, thief, blasphemer, full of anger, a druggy, drunkard, jealous, lover of pleasure, covetous fornicator, sadist, and proud atheist.

    Would I have gone to hell?

    Not fair, because a few years later, at the age of twenty, I developed compassion and started sacrificing my time and energy to help other people. I also began praying all the time and volunteered at a mission that fed hundreds of poor people everyday in New York.

    I think many of the people that died young and stupid or many of the people who died unrepentant, hateful, or died atheists, would not have died in that state if given more time on Earth, or if God would simply speak a clear sentence to them once every ten years or something.

    I think if God spoke one clear sentence to everyone tommorow, and it was an answer to a question each person always had, I think there be more than 99.9% of our world Theists (of those old enough to reason).

    The atheists would be those who thought the message was insanity. Those people would see the massive amounts of mass-conversions due to the same voice on the same day speaking to everyone, that few would remain atheist.

    If that same voice began telling each person what to avoid to experience various rewards in this life and the next, most people would at least give it a shot is my guess.

    There would be some who genuinely despise God and hate the voice, but my guess is they would be a tiny percentage of the world, and they might be contenders with God like Jacob, who "fought with God and won" in the Old Testament, rather than straight up atheists.

    Problem is, God wants atheists, heretics, pagans, and other systems of beliefs, or he'd speak up like that. So, if he leaves countless people in sins they aren't aware they are committing, what is his reason for doing so, and how on Earth are those people at fault?

    Isn't God more at fault for their sins than they are? God for one is aware that they are sinning, not them. God can stop the sin, not them. God could correct and instruct them and refuses to, making God responsible for the sin more than the sinner!
     
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  2. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    God knows the future. You probably didn't die in high school because God knew you would make future changes and there was still good purpose for your life. God also knows the future of those who will not change and who willfully choose to continue in their sins, no matter how much time they could be given.

    According to the scriptures all the sins you mentioned above can be forgiven and are not the reason someone ends up in hell. Jesus has already PAID IN FULL for all those sins. God has already provided a way of freedom from every sin. So it is not God's fault, but the individual alone who bears responsibility and makes the choice to reject God and His heavenly home. Separation from God is the alternative and since it is apart from God's Presence, love, beauty, goodness, and life sustaining power...it is an awful place.
     
  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It's yet another contradiction on top of a pile of contradictions.

    Yep. God sins big time!!

    But God can't sin they say. Riigghhtt....
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    If God would judge people and send them to hell or heaven for sins committed you would be right. But God does not judge (the wise are saying).
    It's only humans that judge, not God.
     
  5. Geoff-Allen

    Geoff-Allen Resident megalomaniac

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  6. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    An atheist who "hates God"/"hates the biblical God" is no atheist.
    You can't hate that which you deny exists.

    However, you can hate beliefs about God and scripture.

    That's a sociological hatred, and proper to certain atheists, whereas the former is a theological hatred, and a logical impossibility for the "true" atheist.
     
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  7. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    So it's impossible to hate the evil characters in books and movies because they don't exist?
     
  8. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    You're talking about hate directed toward fictional characters who do not have churches and millions of disciples who wish to carry out the evil will of literary and movie villains. Except for rare freak shows like the Slenderman attempted murder (which was based on a dark fictional character), there are no dangerous cults based on literary bad guys. Hate directed against them is directed to entertainment, whereas hate directed toward the major gods of major religions is directed to beliefs that can be dangerously acted upon.
     
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  9. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish,, hate isn't something that only applies to reality 'whereas hate directed toward the major gods of major religions is directed to beliefs that can be dangerously acted upon.' whereas you imply 'You can't hate that which you deny exists.' Which is simple denial
     
  10. Hildeburh

    Hildeburh Member

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    Complete indifference toward Abrahamic religions works well for me, hate takes up far too much energy and effort.
     
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  11. Hildeburh

    Hildeburh Member

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    If so, does that not prove to believers that he/she is cruel and capricious and shows no real care or compassion for his/her creations?

    Or that he/she flawed and irresponsible creating beings that kill, pollute and consume at the rate we do.
     
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  12. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    No, just a God that allows freedom of its creations
     
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  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don't think it's possible for us to be separate from God. One may have a different God-concept -- or even no God-concept, but that doesn't separate one from reality or from oneself (unless one is mentally ill).
     
  14. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Clean up your own rubbish. Hate directed against villainous figures in entertainment is different than hate directed to villainous gods because those "entities" have no dangerous supporters in the external world. The opposite holds true for gods, who do have dangerous supporters in the external world. Hatred of Moriarty is based on the knowledge that he has no real-world minions. Hatred of Yahweh, Jesus, or Allah is based on the knowledge that they do have real world minions who can be quite dangerous. A person whose hatred for Moriarty is of the same quality as his/her hatred for Allah is a very confused person indeed.
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think it all depends of is person righteous. If person is righteous, he will have eternal life, if not then he doesn’t live forever.


    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

    Mat. 25:46

    It is possible that person is righteous, even if he doesn’t know all.

    For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
    Romans 2:12-16
     
  16. Hildeburh

    Hildeburh Member

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    Such an old chestnut; if things go to plan its God's will if not it's free will. It's the Christian's conumdrum, if your God is omnipotent and all knowing then how do you reconcile the ugly side of human nature or the presence of evil for that matter; thorny issues for Christians.
     
  17. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    Oh I see, you can understand thing like Star Treks prime directive but extending that to God is beyond your fragile little mind
     
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