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God is Light and Life and Jesus is Light and Life, is Jesus therefore God?

InChrist

Free4ever
[FONT=&quot]The scriptures reveal that the Creator God is Light. He is the Source of Light and Life. (Gen. 2:7; Job 33:4; Psalm 118:27; Psalm 119:130; Isaiah 2:5; 60:20) Jesus is revealed as the true Light who came into the world. Jesus is revealed as the One who made all things ( John 1:3-4; Col.1:16-17) and the scriptures show that He is the Source of Light and Life.
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[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. John 1; 1-9


That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
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[FONT=&quot]According to the scriptures there is only one source of life and one true light and that source and true light is God alone,[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]therefore is it not clearly revealed that the Son, the Word of God ...Jesus is God?[/FONT]
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Sure if your willing to make the same argument making Jacob God. BTW, how is Isaiah 60 speaking of Jesus. Isn't he still speaking to Jacob like in chapter 49.

Isaiah 49:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
John 1:1 clearly says that the Word was with God. Since God appointed Jesus to be the light of the world, it is not surprising that he should be described thus. "This one was in the beginning with God." (Verse 2)
The word Christ means anointed one. Jesus was sent by God. (John 7:28,29)
Therefore, I conclude that Jesus is not Almighty God.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Sure if your willing to make the same argument making Jacob God. BTW, how is Isaiah 60 speaking of Jesus. Isn't he still speaking to Jacob like in chapter 49.

Isaiah 49:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

This verse does not say that Jacob is Light or God. Jacob/Israel was chosen by God to show His light to the nations, but instead they repeatedly fell into sin and rebellion (Isaiah 1:1-4) and did not walk in God’s light ... If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:19-20) Therefore God chose to bring His Light and redemption for Israel and the Gentile nations Himself (Isaiah 63:5). The book of Isaiah is full of references which state that He will do this Himself through the Messiah (Jesus) who brings redemption by suffering for the sins of Israel and the Gentiles (Is. chapter 50; Is. 53:4-6; Psalm 22) and shinning His light into darkness ( Is. 60:1-2; 61:19-20).


Chapter 60 also speaks about the Lord’s light and redemption for Israel and that He will fulfill His original purpose of showing His light through Israel to the Gentiles:


Arise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you. The Gentiles shall come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising. Isaiah 60:1-3
 

InChrist

Free4ever
John 1:1 clearly says that the Word was with God. Since God appointed Jesus to be the light of the world, it is not surprising that he should be described thus. "This one was in the beginning with God." (Verse 2)
The word Christ means anointed one. Jesus was sent by God. (John 7:28,29)
Therefore, I conclude that Jesus is not Almighty God.

Yes, it clearly says the Word was with God, but it does not say “God appointed Jesus to be the light of the world”. Those are words of watchtower theology. The passage does say that the Word was the true Light (verse 9). Since only God is the true Light this makes Jesus God.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. John 1:1-9
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made....' John 1; 1-9

this part of the verse shows that Jesus cannot possibly be God. You can't be the person you are 'with'
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
This verse does not say that Jacob is Light or God. Jacob/Israel was chosen by God to show His light to the nations, but instead they repeatedly fell into sin and rebellion (Isaiah 1:1-4) and did not walk in God’s light ... If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:19-20) Therefore God chose to bring His Light and redemption for Israel and the Gentile nations Himself (Isaiah 63:5). The book of Isaiah is full of references which state that He will do this Himself through the Messiah (Jesus) who brings redemption by suffering for the sins of Israel and the Gentiles (Is. chapter 50; Is. 53:4-6; Psalm 22) and shinning His light into darkness ( Is. 60:1-2; 61:19-20).


Chapter 60 also speaks about the Lord’s light and redemption for Israel and that He will fulfill His original purpose of showing His light through Israel to the Gentiles:


Arise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you. The Gentiles shall come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising. Isaiah 60:1-3
Yes it names the servant as Jacob in Chapter 48. So the servant who is the light in Chapter 49 is Jacob/Israel. The prophecy was also about the decendents of Jacob being blessed so it really isn't a contradiction.

Notice in chapter 60 it doesn't say the Lord will be the light, it says "you" will be the light as the Lord will arise over "you". You, again being Jacob/Israel otherwise it contradicts chapter 49.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Yes it names the servant as Jacob in Chapter 48. So the servant who is the light in Chapter 49 is Jacob/Israel. The prophecy was also about the decendents of Jacob being blessed so it really isn't a contradiction.

Israel was called to be a servant of God, but failed in that calling in respect to being faithful to walk in God’s truth and light, but instead turned to sin, rebellion, idolatry, and darkness. Nevertheless, I see the scriptures showing that God will restore them and use Israel again to shine His light to the world. In the meantime, I believe the verses in chapter 49 are showing that another Servant is prophesied who will accomplish what Israel failed to do; be light to the Gentiles. This Servant will also be the Messiah/Savior and redeem Israel...God’s Son.


For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9;6


I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh, And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine. All flesh shall know That I, the Lord, am your Savior, And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.” Isaiah 49:26

Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. Isaiah 45:21-23



Notice in chapter 60 it doesn't say the Lord will be the light, it says "you" will be the light as the Lord will arise over "you". You, again being Jacob/Israel otherwise it contradicts chapter 49.
[/quote]

It says, “For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you” and “But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you”. It is God’s light that Israel/Jacob reflects, but the light is God’s, He is the Source. This does not contradict chapter 49 which speaks about the Servant who is formed in the womb, who will bring back, raise up and restore the tribes of Israel and bring light to the Gentiles and salvation to the ends of the earth (Is. 49:5-6) Others can reflect God’s light and glory, but it is not their own it is only God’s. God alone possesses the true light because He is the Source. Jesus is the true Light (John 1:4-9), therefore He is God.
 
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idav

Being
Premium Member
Israel was called to be a servant of God, but failed in that calling in respect to being faithful to walk in God’s truth and light, but instead turned to sin, rebellion, idolatry, and darkness. Nevertheless, I see the scriptures showing that God will restore them and use Israel again to shine His light to the world. In the meantime, I believe the verses in chapter 49 are showing that another Servant is prophesied who will accomplish what Israel failed to do; be light to the Gentiles. This Servant will also be the Messiah/Savior and redeem Israel...God’s Son.


For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9;6


I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh, And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine. All flesh shall know That I, the Lord, am your Savior, And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.” Isaiah 49:26

Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. Isaiah 45:21-23





It says, “For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you” and “But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you”. It is God’s light that Israel/Jacob reflects, but the light is God’s, He is the Source. This does not contradict chapter 49 which speaks about the Servant who is formed in the womb, who will bring back, raise up and restore the tribes of Israel and bring light to the Gentiles and salvation to the ends of the earth (Is. 49:5-6) Others can reflect God’s light and glory, but it is not their own it is only God’s. God alone possesses the true light because He is the Source. Jesus is the true Light (John 1:4-9), therefore He is God.

God has no reason to go back on his word. Jacobs and his seed were the light. Isaiah talks of gods forgiveness making Jacob righteous and blessing his lineage.

Further scripture describes it as a lantern and the light source. The source is the father, that doesn't change.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
God has no reason to go back on his word. Jacobs and his seed were the light. Isaiah talks of gods forgiveness making Jacob righteous and blessing his lineage.

Further scripture describes it as a lantern and the light source. The source is the father, that doesn't change.

God does not go back on His word and throughout the Old Testament He has promised to restore Israel and make them a blessing and light to the nations, but they cannot be a light when in sin, rebellion, and darkness. He does have a reason to send a Savior/Messiah to deliver and redeem them from sin.,,“The Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”Says the Lord. Isaiah 59:20 And Paul in the New Testament reiterates... And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion,And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Romans 11:26-27

Jesus is the Savior, Redeemer, and true Light, therefore Jesus is God.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The eternal Son can be with the eternal Father.

for your sentence to make any sense in this context, you would need to remove the word 'with'

You would need to say 'The eternal Son can be the eternal father' ....but this is not what John says so he obviously didnt mean they were one and the same person.
But you may not realise that the scriptures do not say Jesus is eternal. John says that Jesus had a beginning and that he was 'begotten' which means 'created'

John 1:18
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,

Paul calls Jesus the 'firstborn', hence a created being.
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

With that in mind, you can look at Proverbs 8:22-31....there we find more information about Gods first created being who worked along with God and is called the 'master worker'
 

InChrist

Free4ever
for your sentence to make any sense in this context, you would need to remove the word 'with'

You would need to say 'The eternal Son can be the eternal father' ....but this is not what John says so he obviously didnt mean they were one and the same person.'

I do not need to remove the word “with”, nor do I mean that the Son and the Father are one and the same person because they are individual persons, but they are one God as the book of John and elsewhere in the scriptures indicate.


But you may not realise that the scriptures do not say Jesus is eternal. John says that Jesus had a beginning and that he was 'begotten' which means 'created'

John 1:18
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him
Rather than giving any indication that the Son was “created”, I believe the term only begotten used by John is to demonstrate Jesus as uniquely God's Son who shares the same divine nature as God.


What does it mean that Jesus is God's only begotten son?


Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,

Paul calls Jesus the 'firstborn', hence a created being.
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;


[FONT=&quot]In Colossians Chapter one Jesus is not called the first created of all creation. Nor is he called the firstborn of Jehovah or God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I believe the Greek word (prototokos) must be interpreted by its context and in this passage clearly means: preeminent one, heir, supremacy, positional preeminence. He is called “firstborn” because of his position. The first part of verse 15 tells us that he is the image of the invisible God. The next verses (16-18), point out further the meaning of “firstborn” by stating that Christ created all things and that he is supreme and has preeminence over all things. Col. 1:19 says “it pleased the Father that in Him (Christ) all the fullness should dwell.” Then, Col. 2:9-10 states “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power.”, or “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ who is head over every power and authority.”
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[FONT=&quot]I also think one must be consistent, if you are insisting that the word means first created then it would also have to be translated that way a few verses further on in the passage (vs. 18), which does not make any sense. Yet the meaning of preeminence does and I believe this is what Paul was emphasizing.[/FONT]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (first created) over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn (first created???) from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]Related to this, the Greek word used in Revelation 3:14 for “beginning” is arche. It is translated as: beginning, corner, magistrate, power, principality, principle rule in the Strong’s Concordance. Arche is the root for the English word architect. This verse does not say that Jesus had a beginning. It indicates as do other scriptures that Jesus Christ is the source, the power, and the Creator who began creation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]These verses clearly point out the supremacy of Christ as Creator over all of creation.[/FONT]



With that in mind, you can look at Proverbs 8:22-31....there we find more information about Gods first created being who worked along with God and is called the 'master worker'
[/quote]

I do not believe Proverbs chapter 8 has any reference to Christ being a created being at all.

Since chapters 1-9 are speaking about God’s wisdom personified and how important it is to get, acquire, or possess, wisdom, I believe chapter 8 is also speaking of this same wisdom. I do not see any indication that chapter 8 should be taken to have a different meaning, as referring to the Person of Christ, than chapters 1-7 and 9.
I have noticed that the Greek word “qanah” used in verse 22 is not the same Greek word (bara) used in Genesis 1:1, 1:21,1:27, 2:3, 2:4, 5:1,5:2, 6:7 or in Isaiah 43:1, 43:7,45:12, 45:18, 48:7.where the text is speaking of God creating the heavens and the earth and individuals.

The word “qanah” is used elsewhere in Genesis, but not to show the creation of something or someone. Instead, it is translated as “possessor” or “bought” to show ownership. (Gen.14:19, 14:22, 33:19, 47:20, 47:23, 49:30)
The Hebrew word “asah”, translated- to do, work, make, produce, is not used in Proverbs 8:22

This indicates to me that verses 22-31 are speaking metaphorically of God’s attribute of wisdom (His possession as a part of His divine nature), which He has had eternally (verse 23), and which was brought forth (verse 24) to be used in the creation of the universe.


 

Shermana

Heretic
Well it says the word was "a god" when read correctly and not through church-aligned-scholar's lenses, so there goes your whole premise that the Light was God Himself. It also helps to have a working understanding of ancient Israelite Logos Theology which Philo helpfully helps us understand.

70-John-1-1-Truths

Also, as for "pre-eminent", even if it means that and not "firstborn of creation" (even though it clearly states that "Wisdom" personified was the first created entity), (He created me from the beginning of the world, And to the end I shall not fail. (Ecclesiasticus 24:4) it still says "Of creation" which can easily be interpreted to mean "Among creation". There's no reason that it HAS to mean "Pre-eminent' when it's used quite literally throughout the NT as well.

This indicates to me that verses 22-31 are speaking metaphorically of God’s attribute of wisdom (His possession as a part of His divine nature), which He has had eternally (verse 23), and which was brought forth (verse 24) to be used in the creation of the universe.
Even the extreme-Trinitarian Tektonics agrees that it's talking about an actual personified being, as Philo clearly indicates, though they somehow take it into a Trinitarian direction, which may actually be consistent at least with the Theology of the Classical Trinity, unlike most arguments that fall into Modalist traps.

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html

 
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InChrist

Free4ever
Well it says the word was "a god" when read correctly and not through church-aligned-scholar's lenses, so there goes your whole premise that the Light was God Himself. It also helps to have a working understanding of ancient Israelite Logos Theology which Philo helpfully helps us understand.

70-John-1-1-Truths

Also, as for "pre-eminent", even if it means that and not "firstborn of creation" (even though it clearly states that "Wisdom" personified was the first created entity), (He created me from the beginning of the world, And to the end I shall not fail. (Ecclesiasticus 24:4) it still says "Of creation" which can easily be interpreted to mean "Among creation". There's no reason that it HAS to mean "Pre-eminent' when it's used quite literally throughout the NT as well.

Even the extreme-Trinitarian Tektonics agrees that it's talking about an actual personified being, as Philo clearly indicates, though they somehow take it into a Trinitarian direction, which may actually be consistent at least with the Theology of the Classical Trinity, unlike most arguments that fall into Modalist traps.

Jesus: God's Wisdom

"a god" is not a correct translation because the scriptures strictly reveal and teach that there is only one God. For the Word to be called "a god" would indicate a lesser god or another god which is completely contrary to the whole teaching of the Bible. According to the scriptures, Old and New Testaments, all other gods are false gods. But the Word/Jesus is not a false god or a little god. He is the true Light, a quality belonging only to the true God, therefore Jesus is God.


In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. John 1:1-9
 

Shermana

Heretic
"a god" is not a correct translation because the scriptures strictly reveal and teach that there is only one God. For the Word to be called "a god" would indicate a lesser god or another god which is completely contrary to the whole teaching of the Bible. According to the scriptures, Old and New Testaments, all other gods are false gods. But the Word/Jesus is not a false god or a little god. He is the true Light, a quality belonging only to the true God, therefore Jesus is God.


In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. John 1:1-9

Well you'd be wrong because the scriptures clearly state that Angels and "Divine beings" are called "Elohim". There's a reason why Psalm 136:2 says that he is the "god of the gods".

Even Hebrews 2:7 agrees with the Septuagint translation of Psalm 8:5 in which "Elohim" is translated as "Angels".

The idea that "All other gods are false gods" has been soundly refuted by numerous scholars, in addition to the text itself. What it implies is that IDOLS as in statues and carvings are false gods. The "Angels" are still indisputably, without question, referred to as "gods" as in real live "heavenly beings". This issue has been proven over and over on this forum, and if it needs to be proven on this thread for the sake of disproving the OP, so be it. Even Josephus admits that there may have been "lesser gods" in the Creation process.

And in Job, when it says that not even the gods will go near Leviathan, it would be ridiculous to be talking about imaginary beings.

There's a reason that the Father has the article before God to be "THE god".

What the scripture says is that there is no god higher than THE god.

With that said, how can God be "The light" in the first place if Light is something He created?

http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/10-17.htm

New International Version (©1984)
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

Hmmm, he is the god of imaginary beings?

"The great god" means "The god above all the others".

It helps to also know what "god" means. What do you think "god" means? The word defines a class of being, not a single being obviously since there can be "false gods" in the first place.

What do you think "gives light to every man coming into the world" even means in the first place? That God illuminates people into the truth before he places their soul in a womb? What's the very meaning of this verse behind your premise to begin with?

Even the NT says, as most commentators agree, that Paul called Satan "the god of this age" (Note: "The god of" is not the same as "The god"). So even Paul disagrees with you.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
i always find it interesting how a passage of scripture can mean completely different things to different interpretations.

InChrist, do you think its possible that if Jesus can be called 'the Logos/Word', that he could also be described as 'wisdom' in the sense that, as Gods first born, he is the first expression of Gods wisdom in creation?
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
So far I think that Shermana's made the more convincing argument, InChrist. The gospel of John is mimicking the beginning of Genesis. In Genesis the light comes from God and is separated from the darkness. Jesus uses separation of light from darkness as his theme in John 3 for judging those who receive him versus those who don't. "This is the verdict light has come into the world but men loved darkness instead of light. Anyone who does good comes into the light..." In John's gospel, light therefore is not talking about God directly but about a manifestation of the holy spirit. You could call it wisdom, but it is literally judgement against those who refuse Jesus message he is preaching. It is not a useful passage in regards to proving any trinity or for making Jesus = God, either. Instead it makes him someone with a dispensation of wisdom and of the spirit.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
Well you'd be wrong because the scriptures clearly state that Angels and "Divine beings" are called "Elohim". There's a reason why Psalm 136:2 says that he is the "god of the gods".

Even Hebrews 2:7 agrees with the Septuagint translation of Psalm 8:5 in which "Elohim" is translated as "Angels".

The idea that "All other gods are false gods" has been soundly refuted by numerous scholars, in addition to the text itself. What it implies is that IDOLS as in statues and carvings are false gods. The "Angels" are still indisputably, without question, referred to as "gods" as in real live "heavenly beings". This issue has been proven over and over on this forum, and if it needs to be proven on this thread for the sake of disproving the OP, so be it. Even Josephus admits that there may have been "lesser gods" in the Creation process.

And in Job, when it says that not even the gods will go near Leviathan, it would be ridiculous to be talking about imaginary beings.

There's a reason that the Father has the article before God to be "THE god".

What the scripture says is that there is no god higher than THE god.

With that said, how can God be "The light" in the first place if Light is something He created?

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

New International Version (©1984)
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

Hmmm, he is the god of imaginary beings?

"The great god" means "The god above all the others".

It helps to also know what "god" means. What do you think "god" means? The word defines a class of being, not a single being obviously since there can be "false gods" in the first place.

What do you think "gives light to every man coming into the world" even means in the first place? That God illuminates people into the truth before he places their soul in a womb? What's the very meaning of this verse behind your premise to begin with?

Even the NT says, as most commentators agree, that Paul called Satan "the god of this age" (Note: "The god of" is not the same as "The god"). So even Paul disagrees with you.


God is LIGHT because He is the Source of Light, I don't believe light is something He created,,,He is Light. Yes, He created the sun and the moon to give light to the earth, but prior to their creation He was the Light as He will be again in the new Jerusalem of the new heaven and earth...The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. (Rev.21;23)

All gods, whether angels, men, or idols are false gods in that they are not THE True GOD, I think on that we can probably agree. What I am saying is that the Son of God, Jesus, is not a small god. He has all the same attributes of God, He is the true Light as is God, therefore He is God...THE GOD.
 

Shermana

Heretic
God is LIGHT because He is the Source of Light, I don't believe light is something He created,,,He is Light. Yes, He created the sun and the moon to give light to the earth, but prior to their creation He was the Light as He will be again in the new Jerusalem of the new heaven and earth...The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. (Rev.21;23)

All gods, whether angels, men, or idols are false gods in that they are not THE True GOD, I think on that we can probably agree. What I am saying is that the Son of God, Jesus, is not a small god. He has all the same attributes of God, He is the true Light as is God, therefore He is God...THE GOD.

How does Jesus have all the same attributes of God? Where does it say so? He obviously doesn't have the same knowledge of God, and he is reliant on God to perform his miracles. This concept is only found in Church Father theology, not in the text. He may be the Image of God and the representative, but it doesn't mean he has the same attributes. Would God ask Himself to get out of going up on the cross? The "human will" concept doesn't cut it. We need some exact examples of why Jesus has the "Exact same attributes" that no other representative would have. If the lamb is the lamp of which the Light of God shines, that simply means the lamb is the instrument of God to serve as his light. Not that God is the light himself.

Now as for the "Creation" part, it's important to know that it says that it says all things were made THROUGH him, not "By him". This is basic Logos Theology. The Logos was the instrument of which Creation was made. It was THROUGH Jesus that all things were made. A major difference. And if this involves yet another major debate on what exactly the specifics are in this "Logos Theology" of what "Things were made through" means, so be it, I've discussed it numerous times.

With that said, nowhere does the text say that God is the light either. The light is something he created. You also didn't answer my question of what that verse even means in the first place.

So going by the text, your premise doesn't hold up. You can philosophize that "God is the light" all you want, but that's not what the text says.
 
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