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God is gone

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by t3gah, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Intuition, extrasensory perception, clairvoyance....lots of names to describe them.
     
  2. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Oops....I hit submit instead of preview.

    I wanted to finish with the thought that we are spiritual beings in physical bodies. Denying the spiritual and relying on the physical seems, IMHO, to be very limiting.
     
  3. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    1) intuition is the adroit application of a combination of the other 5 senses
    2) extrasensory (outside of senses) means non sensory. The defintion is self defeating and its ambiguity fails to name a specific way of detection.
    3) clairavoyance does not exist and has been assessed not to exist..if you claim clairvoyance does not exist please provide proof.

    there is only 5 senses no more no less.

    define spirt.
     
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  4. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Just as I cannot prove the existence of God to someone who refuses to believe...so I cannot prove that there is such a thing as clairvoyance, ESP or that intuition is not based on your other senses because no matter what instances I give you where people uses these senses, you'll always come up with "but that's not proof" and "they're just guessing". I've had this conversation with others who also believe in only their 5 senses.

    If you're born blind, how does someone prove to you that color exists?
     
  5. okman

    okman New Member

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    Robtex,
    Do you dream? Dreams are something that people really do experience but can't be explained through senses. Now before you ask, "Am I relating God to a dream?" No, I'm only pointing out that people experience things all the time that can't be explained through the 5 senses only.

    Now for the reason this thread began is, "Is God gone and has God given up on us." No, clearly the reason Christ came in flesh and died was to prove that God loved us. Romans 5:8. Christ is God's Son and the Messiah for that is the reason God the Father raised Jesus from the dead. God is still here.
     
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  6. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Okman very jedi type of post but which of the 5 senses do you talk to god with? I don't see what dreaming has to do with finding God and if you think their is another sense besides those accpeted by biologist as the 5 senses could you please name it and supporting evidence for it.

    On your last paragraph about Jesus, lets say for arguements sake he did die on the cross and ascended to the right hand of the father.......he isn't here right now is he? He is suppose to come back on judgement day ...ie he is gone....that theory is supportive of the original post.

    Melody I don't refuse to believe or choose not to believe. By use of rationalization and information about the world around me I have been unable to find God. That is an interesting way to phrase it though because you choose to believe in that which cannot be evidenced and I reationalize that without evidence I am unable to achieve faith.

    As far as your blind /color analogy Spinks beat it to death somewhere else on here.but others precieve that colors exist through the sense of sight (ie one of the 5 and only 5 existing senses) God has never been precieved by anyone that can be collaborated by an independant witness via the 5 senses.

    The mythical world of magic that you propose where there are soothsayers clairvoyants and the like have long been dismissed by most of modern man by tests and technology. If you choose to have faith in God today you do so on that which cannot be evidenced. Plain and simple.

    What I was pointing out on this thead is that on Alex's original post he said God made the world and split. Since God is not evidencable to be present at this time, an indisputable fact, since all have failed to produce God in this century, I submit that Alex's theory on this thread holds more weight than those who say God is everpresent in our lives.
     
  7. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    There are actually more than a few ways.
    I`ve been involved with discovering one.

    ESP has been intensively studied by science and law enforcement.

    All for naught.
     
  8. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    You say that most of modern man dismisses this through "tests and technology" but how do you test for something you don't believe in or understand enough to know what to look for?

    I do have evidence that God exists because I feel (with my physical senses) his presence in my life and I see his hand in the shaping of my life....but you are correct in that I can't prove it to you anymore than I can prove to a blind man that color exists. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist....just that you don't believe it exists.

    It's one of those areas where we'll never find common ground.
     
  9. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Skeptics will always be skeptics. I know you can heal with the power of prayer. There are numberous accounts of people who were found to have cancer or a tumor or some other illness but when they went back in for treatment, no evidence was found. Of course the skeptics will say that they didn't have it to begin with and there was some mixup.

    I know from personal experience that people can be healed with the power of thought and the laying on of hands. Many studies have been done on Reiki and other healing hand modalities with the conclusion that there is no evidence that this is anything other than quackery. Despite that....an increasing number of hospitals are now using Reiki and Healing Touch as alternative therapies because *it works*. I saw a news program about 2 years ago in Toledo, Ohio, where a Toledo Hospital doctor said, "I have no idea how this works and it is outside my understanding of medical science, but I can't argue that it works."

    The power of God in a person's life can be evinced the same way. God can take the most corrupt life and by the power of that person's faith change them into a completely new person. I doubt you could record any of this with our technology but the evidence is there.

    Somewhere I have a book on the lives of some pretty unsavory characters who were turned around by the power of God and made significant changes in their lives. I'll see if I can locate if if there's interest.
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    1) Intuition is 'instinctive knowing, without the use of rational processes' - I think that that classifies intuition as using more than a combination of the other 5 senses. (in that it uses animal instinct which is not a sense, but which is a part of the genetic makeup.
    2) Extrasensory does not mean non sensory; it means OVER(above)sensory the definition is not self defeating and needs no further clarification.
    As to an African(Totally random choice) who has never met a white man before, a lighter is 'Magic', whilst we know full well that a lighter is not magic; it is merely an object which is one that needs 'Extra' learning to not be regarded as magic. I hope you are not going to retalliate by telling us that there is nothing on Earth about which we know nothing.
    3) Clairvoyance; I've a feeling of 'deja vu' with this one, I think we may have 'clashed swords before' Quote :robtex[..if you claim clairvoyance does not exist please provide proof. ] But Melody and I do claim that it exists!!:)
     
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  11. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Melody:

    There has been thousands of test of psychic ablitites, esp clairvoyancy and the like. All of them have led to the same conclusion. That the abilities did not exist in that experiement. Universities have run them, law enforcement agencies all over the US have run the (as Linwood pointed out), independant goverment projects have run them federal enforcement agencies spent tax-payer money on them. It is well covered ground. I would cut and paste 20 or so links to bang the point in the ground but the browser I am using (and really like) firefox, won't let me cut and paste on this site. So I would have to type them in and I am gonna pass on that. The amazing Randi whose name and site deut32.8 keeps posting offers a million dollar prize to anyone that can prove such abilities even and as of date nobody has ever collected.

    It is not about belief at this point because literally thousands of tests have been conducted and all with the same result over and over. Negative. That is about denial.

    Melody which of the 5 senses to you precieve God with. If you are saying touch you are telling me he comes down from his floating air throne and physically touches you somewhere on your person and than communicates in no other way.

    You can prove to a blind man that color exists as I have said before and I may have to find the link now but Mr Spinks beat it to death on another thread. No person today has experience God with their 5 senses which is why when the thread stared with "God is Gone" (thread title) i say it holds more validity. Because in lew of a physical presense that can be detected with the 5 senses God is not detecable in this day in age. So if he does exist. I think Alex's theory hold's more water.

    In this thread I am not argueing his existance/or non existance (though I don't accept his existance through rationale) because this thread is about his presense. Bottom line his presense is not felt by anyone today, yesterday, last week, last month, last year, in the last 10 years via the 5 senses.

    We (the boards collectivly) can reach a common ground many people find alot out about various beliefs, metaphysics, cultures and people on here..depends on where you look. If you look at one book over and over though and only one book you will not move forward. Common ground means moving laterally, as well as forwards and backwards...big game of players. I myself have reached much common ground here with many people and have grown much here. That was priority for me.
     
  12. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I know you can heal with the power of prayer. There are numberous accounts of people who were found to have cancer or a tumor or some other illness but when they went back in for treatment, no evidence was found.

    There are numerous accounts of Bigfoot as well.

    Many studies have been done on Reiki and other healing hand modalities with the conclusion that there is no evidence that this is anything other than quackery. Despite that....an increasing number of hospitals are now using Reiki and Healing Touch as alternative therapies because *it works*.

    Can you point me to these studies or name a hospital that uses this method?
     
  13. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Here are just a few. There are thousands more.

    Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center (Lebanon, NH)
    Integrative Medicine Outpatient Center at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (New York, NY),
    Intergative Therapies Program for Children with Cancer at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center (New York, NY)
    Metropolitan South Health Center (Santiago, Chile)
    Toledo Hospital (Toledo, OH)
    Mercy Hospital (Portland, ME)
    Willcox Memorial Hospital (Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii)
    Center for Integrative Medicine at George Washington University Hospital (Washington, D.C.)
    Samuels Center for Comprehensive Care at St. Lukes-Roosevelt Hospital Center (New York, NY)
    Siloam (Philadelphia, PA)
    Tucson Medical Center (AZ)
    California Pacific Medical Center (CA)
    Portsmouth Regional Hospital (NH)
    Marin General Hospital (CA)
    University of Michigan Hospital (MI)
    Foote Hospital (MI)
    The Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital (NY)
     
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  14. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning, the book of Genesis states that there is a challenge between good and evil. God versus the adversary, Satan. All along the time frame in the scriptures God sends prophets continually or choses men for the task. When Jesus comes on scene, he says the "ruler of the world has been judged" referring to Satan. In the New Testament, Demon's don't want to be expelled into the "pit" as they say, which is earth. In the New Testament, the book of Revelation states that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven down here. The Demon's in the Gospels wanted to possess some pigs (swine) instead of the alternative, which they said was the "pit".

    What was Satan promised? A fight over righteousness and unrighteousness. Also, not to be killed immediately obviously because his expulsion's destination was earth.

    But is Earth, the pit and is God indeed gone?

    Look at the facts:

    Many prophets up to the arrival of Jesus.
    Jesus says he will be with the apostles until the end of the age.
    The apostles died, so Jesus must be with them elsewhere, since the end of the age must mean their, the apostles, earthly lifespan.
    There have been no more prophets from God.
    In bible times, those who were true worshipers were protected by God from war, marauders, thieves, etc.
    Those who were killed were left in the grave as an obvious sign that meant the end of their age.
    Those who died got resurrected.
    Nowadays no one is exempt from the previously mentioned things.
     
  15. angellous_evangellous

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    If you confessed that he is God, then you would not be a Muslim. I will make the Christian confession. Peace be with you as well.
     
  16. angellous_evangellous

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    I must say that I understand your reasoning. I think that you believe that if you can establish that humans have only five senses, and everything flows from the five sences, and since God cannot be discovered by these means, then God does not exist. I must agree with this reasoning, it makes perfect sense.

    However, Christians and Jews can get around this because we do not claim to have discovered God by means of philosophic reasoning from conclusions based upon our sensory devises. We confess that God has revealed Himself. We can agree that God is above human reason, and that our senses are inadequate. However, we are given senses by which we can feel, touch, see, smell, and taste the presence of God once the presuppoision that the requirement for discovery by these means are removed. I can assure you that you will not discover God by means of your senses or reasoning (this is even written in Christian Scripture), but His revelation of Himself will compliment reason and senses. That is why there are so many Christian PhDs and philosophers.
     
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  17. aisha

    aisha New Member

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    how could you say god is gone, if he created us for a purpose then i dont think he'd want to hand us over to satan! the last prophet came already, Jesus [a.s] will return and show us the right path to follow, this will be when the world is coming to an end and the after life awaits us!
     
  18. almifkhar

    almifkhar Active Member

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    god gave islam to the people as a last ditch effort for us to get it together. there will be no more religions after islam and no more prophets or so it says. so with this said, god is alive and well and has gone no where. god has just left it up to us to live life the right way is all. we are after all in charge of our own lives, (it's that thing called free will)
     
  19. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    God is gone
    Wait awhile, He may have just stepped out to use the lavatory.
     
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