• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God is cruel

Is God cruel?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • No

    Votes: 21 65.6%

  • Total voters
    32

nasheayahu

Natsariym of Yah'usha
Yes "God/god" is cruel! This idiot doesn't know what he is doing, he's trying to be like the Alahiym of Yasra'al and the pathetic thing about it all; he's has hijacked The Writings of Yah'uah (יהוה) He gave to His Kohan (כּהן) and created these people called Christians who have no clue what their doing. And as a result, all foreigners are clueless as to how to live by it.

Listing to this to find out who "God/god" is:

Isa 65:11 The Scriptures 1998+ (11) “But you are those who forsake יהוה, who forget My set-apart mountain, who prepare a table for Gad, and who fill a drink offering for Meni.

Gad : pronounced "God/god" both in Hebrew and English, so stop being confused with The Writings of Yashra'al and learn its culture, because it doesn't contradict itself. Also listen to this The Writings of Kha'nuhk (חנוך):

79.6 - 80.7 And the entire law of the stars will be closed to the sinners, and the thoughts of those who dwell upon the Earth will go astray over them, and they will turn from all their ways and will go astray, and will think them Alahiym.

This us why your confused, your seeking a stray star of Shamaiym (Heaven) who is imposing himself as The Soveriegn of Life who is the Shepherd and Maker of Yashra'al!... Gad (God, god), Zeus, Ra, Odin, etc,. are all brothers that have rebelled against Him and has deceived the sons of Adahm thinking they are the Alahiym of all things!
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
I think I just may have lost a friend I prayed the Rosary with because we got in a conversation about the book of revelation and I said I thought it was ridiculous. Then I said the Bible contradicts itself. Then I said God is cruel.

Truly I think God is cruel. He watches so many people in agony and refuses to console them. But what I find very cruel is he wont even speak clear messages to people. He watches throughout history Muslims persecute and kill non-muslims, non-muslims kill Muslims, Christians kill pagans, Catholics kill protestants and vice versa, and repeatedly God refuses to speak clear messages to people, but by doing so he could end such division and killings. The reason there is so much division is God could guide people and he refuses.

For God to see so much agony and refuse to speak up is just cruel. I'm not saying God can be to blame for everything. People need to take some responsibility for our choices and our misery, but I don't think people would make a lot of those choices if they would hear God speak clear messages to them.

If I were God, there would be no such thing as Atheists because I would speak up to people. Would there seriously be Atheists if God actually was willing to speak to everyone?

I would console all hurting people. If I saw a kid getting raped, tortured, and murdered, I would defend them. To not do so is just plain cruel! God could do so without it costing him a thing and he refuses. It's just disgusting!

Shame on you Mr. God! I know you're reading this!!

I may have been a bit rough. But Revelation is actually a ridiculous book. God didn't punish you for saying that or I'd have been dead years ago.

Actually it is not ridiculous but the things people imagine it means are. It is about the past and heavily cryptic to the point it preserves its revelations from people who are unable to decipher it.

You are blaming God for everything though and we don't have proof he exists. A bit presumptuous to blame God in that light, no?

Religion needs to stop being pretended as the real problem when religion teaches morality and corruption of religion, not religion, is the problem. Sufis and Catholics are very tolerant and most Muslims, Hindus and Parsees, Sikhs, everyone really except for the few in religion who believe they are the one true religion at the exclusion of others. The only religion that teaches that only it goes to heaven in its scriptures is actually non Catholic, Pauline Christianity.

Everyone else is pretty tolerant. Of course Jews and Muslims also have outspoken radicals, they are few, and sad, pathetic.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Why do people's standards and expectations of God involve rainbows, unicorns and butterflies? Why do people feel like God should have made our experience of Life a G-rated movie? Why do they expect God to bless them with hugs and smiles and happiness, everywhere they go? Why do they expect God to fly down on a cloud dressed in tie-dye robes, and sprinkle them with happy glitter to erase all their pain and misery, and make everything in their lives enjoyable and peaceful?

I expect none of that. I just think it would be nice to receive some Healing and guidance. Either way, he's cruel
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
This is similar to telling your gay friend that you think homosexuality is ridiculous, your trans friend that gender/sex alteration contradicts with nature and logic, atheist friend that atheism is immoral, female friend that males are better, etc.

Now regardless to being true or false, an opinion or a fact, etc., sometimes friendship is more important than ego or freedom of expression fanaticism. Unless that friend of yours insisted that you tell them what you really think, I see there is absolutely no need to say it. Quite honestly, I believe it is disrespectful, inappropriate and not intelligent to do it then.

We have a saying here that translates to "your tongue is your horse, if you take care of it, it takes care of you" and another that translates to "the influence of the word is sharper than the blade of the sword" (funny it rhymes in English too!)

I hope your friend is an understanding person for your sake. Good friends are not easy to find and I don't wish for you two to lose each other.
Thanks! You are a smart guy :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I'm sorry you're hurting and I hope God will shine on you soon, and answer your sincere questions.

Have you considered reading His book, which contains answers to these kinds of challenging questions?

After all, praying the rosary means you're Catholic, in a tradition that says the Bible can answer these questions. Prayer, like you've made, is a great start. Now read God's book for more. I recommend starting with the gospel of John.
I've always had issues with the Bible. It causes me frustration to read some of it. The Gospels are good though
 

eagerlearner

New Member
I will say first that I cast my vote as NO...God is not cruel. There was a previous poster who said it well, 'God is not cruel, our idea of God is cruel.' We as free thinking people often do a great disservice to God with our fantastical expectations and fantasy world we live in and our powerful innate need to place blame.
I look it at it this way. I am a parent. Many of you are parents. And any of us who are reading this thread right now had parents. Right? Right? Gosh, I hope that is right.
Let's say I have ten children (I don't quite have ten children). Well they certainly are NOT a SIMS game to me. My children are the most important people in my life and I love them dearly. Same for you folks, right? I want my children to go out into the world and experience and accomplish anything they desire...if they want to be successful at something or get married and have kids, whatever it may be.
Now let's say something bad happens to one of those kids. Does that make me a bad parent? Does it make me bad that I couldn't stop it or that maybe I did have the power to stop it but for some reason missed my chance to stop the bad thing? I am their parent and as close to that God figure as can be on earth, the protector and provider and guidance through life, and also the creator that loves his creation. Does it make me a bad parent for even having the kids knowing they will probably suffer at some time in their life? Most of us will say no. Most of us will say that we're all good parents trying our best and we sacrifice so much of ourselves to protect our kids that when bad things do happen we can accept it as part of living in this reality. (Unless of course it is a clear case of blatant neglect or negligence or abuse). <--then we can point at those people and say they are bad parents...
The point I'm getting at is why don't we apply this for God? I believe God is a good parent and creator and wants the best for us. But I also believe he put us in this reality knowing that we must suffer the bad experiences at the same time that we enjoy the good experiences. There is no part of the bible that I can find where God says 'I am all powerful. I can do anything so don't worry I will always protect you from harm.' In fact, all I see in the bible, starting from Genesis, is that God says you will work hard to exist and live on this world and the earth will work against you and make it even harder, and then one day you will die. I always thought the bible painted a clear picture of the reality we live in....it is a hard one, a dog eat dog world, that you must be strong to thrive in, but no matter how strong you are or how hard you work you are going to be hurt and killed one day by someone or something. But what is the easiest thing to do....blame God, or rather blame our 'idea' of God and use our 'idea of evil' and 'idea of good' against Him. When we were never at any point taught that God would take care of all of our earthly worries and problems and threats and fears.
In this world evil things happen every day. Some are evil because we have a broad concept that we created as to what is evil. Some things are evil because it is clear to see they are evil. Either way, blame God, right? But also in this world wonderful things happen every day. Every single day someone is helping someone else. Every single day people are loving and laughing and having fun and supporting each other as friends and family and community. Every day miracles are happening. So why do we blame God for all the 'evil' and not praise him for all the good? Or rather why do some of us focus on the evil and not focus on the good that happens?
I believe a lot of us are simply out of touch with our spirituality and therefore hateful toward....well hateful toward most things in the whole world, not just hateful toward God. And therefore blame everything around them, including and especially God. And some of us are mentally ill, suffering with constant depression and illness so the entire world looks bleak, especially God because he is easiest to blame.
We talk about starving children and criminals and all these evil things happening everywhere. I did not save a starving kid today. Did you? Does that make me evil? There are people being raped and killed every single day. I did not stop any of it. Did you???? Does that make you evil? We have the power to make changes in our world, but most of us don't....we just blame God.
We all need to work on our own personal relationship with God. We can pour over the contradictions in the bible, the evils that happen in the world, the meaning of life and why must we suffer and die and everything in between. But we must have a direct and personal relationship with God. When you hold on to that....you may find your own way to breach the incredibly flawed view that we have created that exists between God and our 'idea' of God.
I believe in God. I believe in the power of prayer. I believe in being good to those around me and not blaming anyone or anything for my hardships because I know I am a human being that was put here to live and experience life(the real life that exists in this reality, not some fantasy where God is supposed to protect me from everything). And that means I will suffer pain and eventually death....but while I am alive I will experience all the good things, too, and have a glorious opportunity to connect with my higher power and have the most important, fulfilling, life affirming relationship of my existence for it.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Try the Quran, it is unbelievably less violent or corrupted by scribes, which may surprise some but is nevertheless a fact.
I tried the Koran...it is incoherent and contains stuff like this:

Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims

Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”

Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,”

Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,”

Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”

Muhammad and the early Muslims were very violent.
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
I practice Buddhism to a certain extent. I try to purge myself of all desire for desire leads to suffering.

I love most religion. I am actually a Muslim but love "Gnostic" literature which teaches a lot of what you described and is like modern Kabbalah, which I happen to study as well, the Zohar to be specific. I own 15 out of 15 volumes and have a different version too. I think most religions teach desire needs to be checked. You can't fight every desire so it boils down to figuring out what is good for you and what is not, and discipline.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I will say first that I cast my vote as NO...God is not cruel. There was a previous poster who said it well, 'God is not cruel, our idea of God is cruel.' We as free thinking people often do a great disservice to God with our fantastical expectations and fantasy world we live in and our powerful innate need to place blame.
I look it at it this way. I am a parent. Many of you are parents. And any of us who are reading this thread right now had parents. Right? Right? Gosh, I hope that is right.
Let's say I have ten children (I don't quite have ten children). Well they certainly are NOT a SIMS game to me. My children are the most important people in my life and I love them dearly. Same for you folks, right? I want my children to go out into the world and experience and accomplish anything they desire...if they want to be successful at something or get married and have kids, whatever it may be.
Now let's say something bad happens to one of those kids. Does that make me a bad parent? Does it make me bad that I couldn't stop it or that maybe I did have the power to stop it but for some reason missed my chance to stop the bad thing? I am their parent and as close to that God figure as can be on earth, the protector and provider and guidance through life, and also the creator that loves his creation. Does it make me a bad parent for even having the kids knowing they will probably suffer at some time in their life? Most of us will say no. Most of us will say that we're all good parents trying our best and we sacrifice so much of ourselves to protect our kids that when bad things do happen we can accept it as part of living in this reality. (Unless of course it is a clear case of blatant neglect or negligence or abuse). <--then we can point at those people and say they are bad parents...
The point I'm getting at is why don't we apply this for God? I believe God is a good parent and creator and wants the best for us. But I also believe he put us in this reality knowing that we must suffer the bad experiences at the same time that we enjoy the good experiences. There is no part of the bible that I can find where God says 'I am all powerful. I can do anything so don't worry I will always protect you from harm.' In fact, all I see in the bible, starting from Genesis, is that God says you will work hard to exist and live on this world and the earth will work against you and make it even harder, and then one day you will die. I always thought the bible painted a clear picture of the reality we live in....it is a hard one, a dog eat dog world, that you must be strong to thrive in, but no matter how strong you are or how hard you work you are going to be hurt and killed one day by someone or something. But what is the easiest thing to do....blame God, or rather blame our 'idea' of God and use our 'idea of evil' and 'idea of good' against Him. When we were never at any point taught that God would take care of all of our earthly worries and problems and threats and fears.
In this world evil things happen every day. Some are evil because we have a broad concept that we created as to what is evil. Some things are evil because it is clear to see they are evil. Either way, blame God, right? But also in this world wonderful things happen every day. Every single day someone is helping someone else. Every single day people are loving and laughing and having fun and supporting each other as friends and family and community. Every day miracles are happening. So why do we blame God for all the 'evil' and not praise him for all the good? Or rather why do some of us focus on the evil and not focus on the good that happens?
I believe a lot of us are simply out of touch with our spirituality and therefore hateful toward....well hateful toward most things in the whole world, not just hateful toward God. And therefore blame everything around them, including and especially God. And some of us are mentally ill, suffering with constant depression and illness so the entire world looks bleak, especially God because he is easiest to blame.
We talk about starving children and criminals and all these evil things happening everywhere. I did not save a starving kid today. Did you? Does that make me evil? There are people being raped and killed every single day. I did not stop any of it. Did you???? Does that make you evil? We have the power to make changes in our world, but most of us don't....we just blame God.
We all need to work on our own personal relationship with God. We can pour over the contradictions in the bible, the evils that happen in the world, the meaning of life and why must we suffer and die and everything in between. But we must have a direct and personal relationship with God. When you hold on to that....you may find your own way to breach the incredibly flawed view that we have created that exists between God and our 'idea' of God.
I believe in God. I believe in the power of prayer. I believe in being good to those around me and not blaming anyone or anything for my hardships because I know I am a human being that was put here to live and experience life(the real life that exists in this reality, not some fantasy where God is supposed to protect me from everything). And that means I will suffer pain and eventually death....but while I am alive I will experience all the good things, too, and have a glorious opportunity to connect with my higher power and have the most important, fulfilling, life affirming relationship of my existence for it.
I gave your post a thumbs up because of all that effort but do you think you could make more paragraphs and spaces next time just to make it an easier read. Thanks :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I love most religion. I am actually a Muslim but love "Gnostic" literature which teaches a lot of what you described and is like modern Kabbalah, which I happen to study as well, the Zohar to be specific. I own 15 out of 15 volumes and have a different version too. I think most religions teach desire needs to be checked. You can't fight every desire so it boils down to figuring out what is good for you and what is not, and discipline.
My heart is always moved when I meet a peaceful muslim. Allah bless you!
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
I tried the Koran...it is incoherent and contains stuff like this:

Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims

Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”

Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,”

Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,”

Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”

Muhammad and the early Muslims were very violent.

Ancient history. And you probably know less than you think, Mohammed wasn't a maniac and any one of those quotes is open to interpretation in context AND STILL nothing compared to the Bible.

You don't have to take everything so literally. But seriously, I don't find any of those quotes offensive, most are commands given to Moses in the Torah if you want to compare, and not to anyone who is to do those things today.

I hate saying out of context, but you might want to concentrate on the good and not the bad.

Or give up religion.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
How do you determine there is a god who lets these things happen And converesly, let good happen too?
Through coincidence and indoctrination I have come to fully believe that there is a God in control. The cruelty is where he sees such misery and people crying out to him/her and he/she is totally capable of easing the pain and establishing justice, and refuses to. God could give understanding to all confused people. Imagine how much good that would do. Instead God hides himself/herself.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
In "free will", "God" always supports the criminal over the victim. The criminal who rapes a 9-month old baby to death has his free will supported, while the free will of the baby's parents to see her grow up happy and healthy is totally ignored.

Their will is never supported, even if they are good, pious people who attend church and pray sincerely. Their baby is still dead and they are left with "The Lord giveth..."

If you join this with the "no sparrow shall fall" idea, you could find yourself wondering if this is a god who enjoys watching the evil done to the weak and innocent by criminals.

2. The doctrine of free will is diametrically opposed to the attribute of an omniscient god.

When you say "all-knowing", the accent is on the "all". It is impossible for a god to know everything there is to know but to not know which choice one of its creations will make. There is nothing a creation can do that an omniscient god doesn't know about in advance.

This means that the creation has zero choice. He/She/It must do whatever is in the mind of the all-knowing god. This also means that the god allows evil to exist because s/he/it wants evil to exist.

To an omniscient god, the planet is just a humongous Sims game, and the free will argument is illusory.
I love the way your mind works, Mary! :)
 

SethZaddik

Active Member
I tried the Koran...it is incoherent and contains stuff like this:

Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.

Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims

Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”

Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,”

Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,”

Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”

Muhammad and the early Muslims were very violent.

There is always the option of not having a religion but believing in God and studying them all without commitment. I like Islam because it requires little and the little it does is the discipline I need, but I agree that the Quran is incoherent in translation, I do my own English to English translation through and it's actually pretty good. The book I mean it is a fascinating religion too, like Christianity except no trinity and Jesus is the Messiah,not God.

Which is actually what the Gospels say in reality. But I digress, the world is a messed up place and we're going to die, enjoy life and be merry while you can, it's good you have concerns but if God exists hopefully God has a plan, death might be the answer to the problem of why life is messed up, so we don't want to live forever and look forward to heaven. Which should solve everything if exists.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
I think I just may have lost a friend I prayed the Rosary with because we got in a conversation about the book of revelation and I said I thought it was ridiculous. Then I said the Bible contradicts itself. Then I said God is cruel.

Truly I think God is cruel. He watches so many people in agony and refuses to console them. But what I find very cruel is he wont even speak clear messages to people. He watches throughout history Muslims persecute and kill non-muslims, non-muslims kill Muslims, Christians kill pagans, Catholics kill protestants and vice versa, and repeatedly God refuses to speak clear messages to people, but by doing so he could end such division and killings. The reason there is so much division is God could guide people and he refuses.

For God to see so much agony and refuse to speak up is just cruel. I'm not saying God can be to blame for everything. People need to take some responsibility for our choices and our misery, but I don't think people would make a lot of those choices if they would hear God speak clear messages to them.

If I were God, there would be no such thing as Atheists because I would speak up to people. Would there seriously be Atheists if God actually was willing to speak to everyone?

I would console all hurting people. If I saw a kid getting raped, tortured, and murdered, I would defend them. To not do so is just plain cruel! God could do so without it costing him a thing and he refuses. It's just disgusting!

Shame on you Mr. God! I know you're reading this!!


Does this mean that u are now atheist?
 
Top