...god is “designed”!

[ChristineM]

We Humans have some sort of “religious instinct”……..we “feel” as if there is something out there.

Speak for yourself, you cannot speak for humanity

Belief in God(s) was caused by this instinct. And then this belief in God evolved in to what we call religions.

Was it? Seems to me you have it wrong way round

Talking specifically about Jesus, well he was a historical person who did stuff that witnesses interpreted as miracles,

Or at least stories of witnesses

So the question is why do we have this religious instinct?

It is nor an instinct, you are indoctrinated into it.

or why did the witnesses interpreted their observations as miracles………

Or perhaps is just stories to help bind together a specific group

 

[leroy]

Speak for yourself, you cannot speak for humanity





Was it? Seems to me you have it wrong way round



Or at least stories of witnesses






Or perhaps is just stories to help bind together a specific group

We know with high degree of certainty that Peter and many others saw something that they interpreted as miracles……..the historical evidence is robust.

As for the religious instinct there is plenty of evidence that strongly suggests that we do have that instinct.
We know with high degree of certainty that Peter and many others saw something that they interpreted as miracles……..the historical evidence is robust.

As for the religious instinct there is plenty of evidence that strongly suggests that we do have that instinct.
Do humans have a ‘religion instinct’?

This explains why so many independent cultures have some sort of God(s)

 

[ChristineM]

We know with high degree of certainty that Peter and many others saw something that they interpreted as miracles……..the historical evidence is robust.

As for the religious instinct there is plenty of evidence that strongly suggests that we do have that instinct.
We know with high degree of certainty that Peter and many others saw something that they interpreted as miracles……..the historical evidence is robust.

As for the religious instinct there is plenty of evidence that strongly suggests that we do have that instinct.
Do humans have a ‘religion instinct’?

This explains why so many independent cultures have some sort of God(s)

You assume with no degree of evidence, and historical evidence does not exist otherwise it would be historical and not religious


How about a scientific paper

Instinct and Sentiment in Religion on JSTOR

As opposed to a religion confirmation bias article


And as usual you have omitted a key point

 

[leroy]

How about a scientific paper

Instinct and Sentiment in Religion on JSTOR

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2178561?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

Ok I agree with the paper, religion is not an instinct in the strict sense of the word, but there is an innate sentiment that humans seem to have.

So belief God was caused by this sentiment ….. not by lunatic humans that what to indoctrinate to take over the world ……. Any disagreement from your part?

You assume with no degree of evidence, and historical evidence does not exist otherwise it would be historical and not religious

It is not an assumption, it is an “almost certain historical fact” scholars agree with this fact.

Atheistic New Testament scholar Gerd Ludemann concludes, "It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus' death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ
Gary R. Habermas Quotes (Author of The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus)

I am not asserting that the saw the risen Jesus, I am claiming that the saw something that they interpreted as the risen Jesus……and this experience caused belief in the Christian God. …. Any disagreement from your part.

 

[ChristineM]

an innate sentiment that humans seem to have

You are born without knowledge of gods which is later imprinted on your child mind by various factors, that is the indoctrination of which i speak

“almost certain historical fact” scholars agree with this fact

No, not historical and not fact and yes some scholars accept it, some don't

am not asserting that the saw the risen Jesus, I am claiming that the saw something that they interpreted as the risen Jesus……and this experience caused belief in the Christian God. …. Any disagreement from your part.

Ans i have a different explanation that fits with the facts of life and logic and is backed by precisely as much evidence as JC rising from the dead but you wouldn't even consider it so i will not waste my time typing it in

 

[Audie]

Speak for yourself, you cannot speak for humanity





Was it? Seems to me you have it wrong way round



Or at least stories of witnesses



It is nor an instinct, you are indoctrinated into it.



Or perhaps is just stories to help bind together a specific group

The religious instinct is to just say things

 

[Bear Wild]

Do you think Peter and the apostles where part of an evil Masonic, organization?.... Or would you say that they where working for the jewelry industry..... Maybe they invented "the jesus" so that they could sale crosses and other fancy stuff.

Now I never thought of it from that angle. You may be on to something. The Masonic organization developed long after the origin of Christianity and was not evil. So your analogy has no meaning.

The new testament were books of myth about Jesus from different viewpoints. The myth has meaning to someone in the faith but not an explanation of the world we live in. The Norse and Celtic myths have meaning to me and are just as real as either the new or old testament. It represents out would just as well as the bible. So do you believe in Thor, Freya, Wodan, Lugh, or the Dagda?

 

[ChristineM]

The religious instinct is to just say things that massage confirmation bias

Fixed

 

[leroy]

Now I never thought of it from that angle. You may be on to something. The Masonic organization developed long after the origin of Christianity and was not evil. So your analogy has no meaning.

The new testament were books of myth about Jesus from different viewpoints. The myth has meaning to someone in the faith but not an explanation of the world we live in. The Norse and Celtic myths have meaning to me and are just as real as either the new or old testament. It represents out would just as well as the bible. So do you believe in Thor, Freya, Wodan, Lugh, or the Dagda?

Ok but whether if the stories are real or not is irrelevant for my point……..the point is that early Christians (including the apostoles) believed that this stories where real and that belief caused the Christian Religion.

In other words “the Jesus” was not designed by some evil organization that wanted to take over the world (as the OP suggests) but rather “the Jesus” was caused by the belief of early Christians that Jesus had some sort of divine authority and “powers”

So do you believe in Thor, Freya, Wodan, Lugh, or the Dagda?

No, but I would still disagree with the OP these Gods where not designed to fit anyone “needs”……..people have a natural and innate tendency (let’s call it an instinct* even though its not an instinct in the strict sense of the word) to believe in higher powers (Gods)………….belief in God(s) was simple caused by this instinct. .. any disagreement form your part?

 

[leroy]

You are born without knowledge of gods which is later imprinted on your child mind by various factors, that is the indoctrination of which i speak

Well scholars have shown that we do have an innate tendency towards beliving ina higher power (God*s*)……….even your own source confirms this……………..SO apart from your own personal opinion do you have any evidence that suggests otherwise?

No, not historical and not fact and yes some scholars accept it, some don't

Can you name (and quote) a single scholar who disagrees?......just for context you have to quote a scholar that would affirm that Peter and the apostoles didn’t believe that Jesus performed miracles……………apart from Jesus mythithists I doubt you can find a single quote form a scholar who would make that assertion.

Ans i have a different explanation that fits with the facts of life and logic and is backed by precisely as much evidence as JC rising from the dead but you wouldn't even consider it so i will not waste my time typing it in

I am not saying that Jesus rose from the dead, I am saying that Peter and the apostoles belived that such an event occurred………………if you have evidence that suggests otherwise, please feel free to share it,

 

[ChristineM]

Well scholars have shown that we do have an innate tendency towards beliving ina higher power (God*s*)……….even your own source confirms this……………..

And psychologists who actually study the human mind have said otherwise. My own source says that there are some that believe it but in fact shows that to be a false belief based on zero evidence evidence and loads of confirmation bias

Can you name (and quote) a single scholar who disagrees?......just for context you have to quote a scholar that would affirm that Peter and the apostoles didn’t believe that Jesus performed miracles……………apart from Jesus mythithists I doubt you can find a single quote form a scholar who would make that assertion.

Surely you introduced scholars into the discussion claiming they all agreed. No more of your usual tricks of putting the oness onto others.

I am not saying that Jesus rose from the dead, I am saying that Peter and the apostoles belived that such an event occurred………………if you have evidence that suggests otherwise, please feel free to share it,

Logic, biology, show its not possible, so can you show otherwise?

 

[leroy]

And psychologists who actually study the human mind have said otherwise. My own source says that there are some that believe it but in fact shows that to be a false belief based on zero evidence evidence and loads of confirmation bias

ok and where did this bias come from? ...... my theory our innate tendency towards beliving in a higher power................any disagreement?

Surely you introduced scholars into the discussion claiming they all agreed. No more of your usual tricks of putting the oness onto others.

ok no sources nor evidence from your part.

Logic, biology, show its not possible, so can you show otherwise?

Its impossible to believe in miracles? Well I do believe in miracles……so am I an impossible being?............whats so impossible or even unlikely with the idea that Peter and apostoles belived in miracles?

 

[ChristineM]

ok and where did this bias come from?

Doh!!! The bible

any disagreement?

Is that not blindingly obvious?

ok no sources nor evidence from your part.

Nor yours. Mine because i have given up pandering to the time wasting tactics of fundimentalists, do you have a reason?

Its impossible to believe in miracles? Well I do believe in miracles……so am I an impossible being?............whats so impossible or even unlikely with the idea that Peter and apostoles belived in miracles?

Jolly good, that explains all.

 

[leroy]

Doh!!! The bible

No, Christianly predates the bible (new testament)

belif in christ arrose because the apostoles honesntly and sincerly belived in Jesus

 

[ChristineM]

No, Christianly predates the bible (new testament)

belif in christ arrose because the apostoles honesntly and sincerly belived in Jesus

We are not talking early Christianity but modern scholars

 

[leroy]

We are not talking early Christianity but modern scholars

MMM, all I am saying is that Christianity originated because Peter and the apostles honestly and sincerely believed in Jesus and his miracles…..any disagreement? It seems to me that we are talking about different things

 

[ChristineM]

MMM, all I am saying is that Christianity originated because Peter and the apostles honestly and sincerely believed in Jesus and his miracles…..any disagreement? It seems to me that we are talking about different things

Yes i am talking history and you are talking faith

 

[leroy]

Yes i am talking history and you are talking faith

Well it’s a historical fact that Peter and the apostles believed that Jesus performed miracles………….does your research suggest otherwise ?

 

[ChristineM]

Well it’s a historical fact that Peter and the apostles believed that Jesus performed miracles………….does your research suggest otherwise ?

Is it?

 

[leroy]

Is it?

yes