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Featured God-Inspired Scripture

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Redemptionsong, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    I don't think any of it is a "deception," necessarily, because I do believe that the writers truly believed every word they wrote. That doesn't, however, make it "true," just that the writers believed it to be true.

    Stonehenge took about the same amount of time to construct, and inspires far more awe in me, personally, than pretty much any book (including those in the Bible.)

    I can say the same about several other books, holy and otherwise, in that they're unique in "plan" (layout), claimed "prophecies", and the power they contain with their use of language.

    Being unique is not, itself, unique.
     
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  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Nothing in original, the Christianity has scripture of second or third hand accounts.
    Regards
     
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    You are very right.
    Regards
     
  4. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Nope.
    Though I suspect that your appeal to incredulity will be pointed out at some point.
     
  5. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    That isn't true. It definitely benefited groups, governments, and individuals, to fudge it into certain beliefs.

    And as has been shown by us - over-and-over, - there are far more then "small unintentional errors."

    They actually misunderstood Tanakh texts and wrote the error into their Jesus story, and other NT texts.

    No fallen evil Satan and his angels.

    No "virgin" birth prophecies for the Hebrew Messiah.

    Jesus never claimed to be God, or part of any trinity.

    They turned words meaning a Sacred Prostitute (Qadesh) into a homosexual.

    *
     
  6. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    The majority of those do nothing but parrot what Tanakh says.

    And how exactly does a NEWER book, parroting an OLDER book, that Jesus whom was Jewish - as a teacher taught, - mean, "the New Testament is a natural continuation of God's revelation is the fulfilment of past scripture and the completion of divine purpose" ???

    According to the Jews, whose book Tanakh is, - Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies for their Messiah.

    And the Isaiah verses have been misunderstood/mistranslated by others after Jesus's death. No "virgin" birth there, etc.


    *
     
    #46 Ingledsva, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  7. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Who says that?

    That a day to God, can be as a thousand years to us, - in no way means the seven day creation story means seven thousand years.

    In fact it tells us the seventh day is specifically the Holy Sabbath. Since when is the Sabbath a thousand years long?

    It also uses the Jewish formula for a regular day -

    Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

    *
     
  8. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Being a Baha'i I would take issue with your remark about the Qur'an being a deception. As Baha'is we do accept the Bible as inspired but in some respects inaccurate. Overall though for me you have to consider the inspiration or revelation of the Words. The Gospels appear to be based on "Logia" or sayings of Jesus that are variously clothed in the Gospels... The Qur'an as much as we can tell was revealed and soon thereafter set to writing. The Qur'an also recognizes Jesus so in a sense it is a continuation of revelation we believe from earlier Holy Scriptures:

    "He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel."

    (The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 3 - The Family Of Imran)
     
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  9. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    There will always be two camps in the theological debate. The Truth, however, lies in the Word, and in the power that that Word has to change lives for the better.
    The argument that the New Testament contains forgeries is only convincing if you can provide scriptural contradictions to support your argument. As far as I can see there are no contradictions.
     
  10. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    I suggest you look into this a bit more closely. The Hindu scriptures are not 'one scripture', with a common or consistent theme.
    The Qur'an was written down over a period of 23 years, and cannot be compared to the Bible. It's only link to prophetic legitimacy are its biblical illustrations, many of which are inaccurate.
     
  11. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Your answer assumes facts that are not in evidence.
     
  12. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Circular reasoning drenched in clap-trap.
     
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  13. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    Thank you for your thoughtful response.

    My claim is based on the belief that the Holy Spirit has inspired the writing of the holy scriptures. Prove that the scriptures can 'be broken' and I will happily seek Truth elsewhere.

    The reason that the Bible stands above all other books in its authority is that it has proved itself to be the work of the Holy Spirit. It also points to the one, Jesus Christ, who in his life and works proves himself to be our Lord and Saviour. I believe His spirit governs the course of history, and everything that has happened, and will happen, is under His control.

    There are many that scoff at this assurance, but the deeper one digs the more certain one becomes. It's quite the opposite with a deception.

    Let it be said, there are many truths in this world. They can be found in religious, moral and scientific spheres. But Truth is quite another thing. Truth with a big 'T' has to be true for all mankind, and that is the claim that Jesus made about himself. 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'.
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    But it hasn't proven itself to be the work of any Holy Spirit.

    There is also no proof that it points to Jesus.

    If it proved itself there wouldn't be people out here saying baloney.

    Belief doesn't make it a fact.

    *
     
  15. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Claims are not supported by belief, but rather by evidence, something that your belief is rather short of.
    That's a reason? You are, as per usual, assuming as facts mere claim, and weak ones, at that.
    Again you are putting the cart ahead of the horse. Until you prove that there was a Christ who had life and works and demonstrate that supernatural event occur you're just bloviating.
    That's nice, more claims with no support.
    But quite typical of presuppositional self-delusion.
    And I say that's horse pucky, why should anyone believe you?
     
  16. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    In a nutshell, the reasons I cannot accept the Qur'an as prophecy are:
    Muhammad was not an Israelite. It's clear from the Bible that God had a 'chosen' people who became guardians of his Word. The literary prophets were all Israelites. This makes the claims of Muhammad either fraudulant or erroneous.
    There are clear inconsistencies between the Bible and Qur'an. So great are these inconsistencies that the claim made by Muslims that the Bible has been corrupted cannot be upheld. I'm thinking specifically of the denial of the crucifixion of Jesus, and the claim that Abraham accompanied Ishmael and not Isaac to the place of sacrifice.
     
  17. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    As already stated, God supplies the evidence in the form of a consistent prophecy. My evidence for God is His Word.

    All you have to do is prove the Bible to be a lie and I'll be satisfied that God does not exist.
     
  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    Hello again!

    You're right, belief does not make it a fact. But then again, the most important things in life cannot be established by fact - or visible evidence. Facts can be used to point to the Truth, but the Truth will always be spiritual in character.

    Can you prove the existence of love?
     
    #58 Redemptionsong, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Actually many of them do, and each set of scriptures are "unique" since they don't cover all the same material.

    BTW, Thomas Aquinas, who knew a thing or two about the Bible, said that a Christian simply cannot take the "O.T." completely literally since by doing as such Jesus could not have been the messiah. Therefore, he said it's best to view the "O.T." in more figurative terms.
     
  20. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Active Member

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    I get the feeling you're trying to put words into my mouth. Do you have any specific passage of scripture in mind?
     
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