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Featured God has to prove to me that He exists: what kind of proof should I demand?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Shantanu, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    "The universe is beautiful" does not imply "a god made it."

    It certainly doesn't imply "this particular god made it as opposed to all the other gods that humanity also invented."
     
  2. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    So would that be attributable to God intervention in setting up this myriad of religious institutions around the world?
     
  3. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    So it is your belief that Einstein was God blessed to be discovering such things as Relativity and Sabbath is a special Holy Day for prayers to this God that you are trying to get me to adopt?
     
  4. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    No! Im saying the mind plays a big part in finding God..and have used einstein as an example of how the human mind can reach an understanding(with/in Gods involvement)..einstein was a genius because he gave what he knew the (time) to understand in what he knew..and what made him a genius was his dedication of TIME he gave more to understand his work..Just like any other Job one will know of their duty and be the best at it..because they gave the (time) to understand it..why I’ve said this is your lack in God is because you did not give it YOUR TIME to understand in God..this is what separate(s) you from God and that is through your understanding. This is and will be in HOW you’ll find and become of Gods few, is through your understanding(Mind)..BUT you NEED to make the TIME to learn in God.
     
    #144 Workman, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  5. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    You will not find God through facts, or evidence..because God does not allow it that way..that is the scientific way of believing..
    Science is the work of experimenting and masters of it, but there is one thing science cannot experiment on..
    And that’s Experience.
    This is where Religion would cover..
    And this is maybe why the two do not get along...Science cannot experiment on (ones)experience..
    God forbids it this way.
     
    #145 Workman, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  6. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Not as I understand it. It amounts to an argument that having a culture in common ─ stories of origins, heroes and natural phenomena, language (recall 'shibboleth'), and also beliefs, often thus communal ceremonies, rituals, observations for birth and death, luck in hunting or harvest or war or tough times &c ─ contributes to group identity and the benefits, both in peace and war, of group cooperation.

    That would be consistent with research showing that our evolved moral tendencies ─ dislike of the one who harms, fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to the group &c ─ are appropriate for gregarious living.
     
  7. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Then why do you need proof?
     
  8. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    You misunderstood. I meant is the splendor and awe of creation not enough -- to convince a person that there is a God.
     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The fact that our unevolved God sensors cannot perceive God clearly and thus come up with different views, does not necessitate that there is no God.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    No, but the fact that we can't tell whether God exists does mean that God is irrelevant and unnecessary as far as we can tell.
     
  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    That's like saying that because some people can't distinguish red from green, red and green discernment must therefore be irrelevant and unnecessary.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    No, it's like the quote attributed to Laplace to explain why his mathematical model of the solar system didn't include God: "I has no need of that hypothesis."

    In your scenario, anyone who points to a thing and says that it must be red and not green is talking out of their butts... and anyone who goes several steps beyond this to pledge their life to the fact that the thing is red and make it the foundation of their worldview is completely delusional.

    ... even if there's still a chance that the thing might be red.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    It is a question where there is no logical nor rational demand that is meaningful from the fallible human perspective.
     
  14. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    We cannot say that a God exists without verifiable proof of that God: it has eluded me after 20 years of search.
     
  15. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with simple living with a partner who can bear children for the family and go out hunting and picking fruits off trees; without the belief of religion-based communal living: that is how a lot of species thrive in the wild if I am not mistaken. Why do we need the delusion of a Creator or Preserver God when it could all be explained from our biology?
     
  16. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    I did not get proof of any God's communications to me on how to live my life. So I am free to live according to my own ethical values and sense of dharma (duties and righteous actions).
     
  17. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    That is evading the human necessity for the truth to be revealed in this day and age so one does not have to rely on past revelations for which the Messiahs and Prophets and Buddhas are not here to answer questions of how it was that they were selected for their particular knowledge.
     
  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Fallible humans are not capable of absolute Truth, nor the absolute knowledge of God's existence. This would be a vain egocentric demand of illusions of delusion.
     
  19. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    I see. I must be that fallible human being not capable of the absolute Truth, nor of the absolute knowledge of God's existence. But I refuse to believe anyone else of the same unless He or She can give me the concrete proof of God's existence excepting a referral to read the scriptures. If no human being alive can produce that evidence it must be God's responsibility to provide the proof. He must find some way to answer my demand if He is God.
     
  20. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say we did.

    However, it's clear that humans survive best in tribes, and not as loners out on the veldt like eg lions.

    And the evidence for this is voluminous and strong, centering around cooperative action. In nearly all primate societies, including ours, position in society depends on one-to-one relationships within the group; and the larger the primate brain, the more such relationships are possible. This results in humans having many more such relationships each than any other primate species. If you improve your position in the society, this increases your own chances of survival by giving better access to resources and to breeding partners.
     
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