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God does everything for His own Glory!

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Special Revelation, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. Special Revelation

    Special Revelation Active Member

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    God does everything for His own Glory. Christians have been reconciled to Him through Christ to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Let's talk about it.

    Isaiah 43:7
    everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."

    Isaiah 42:8
    "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

    Jeremiah 13:16
    Give glory to the LORD your God before he brings the darkness, before your feet stumble on the darkening hills. You hope for light, but he will turn it to thick darkness and change it to deep gloom.

    Exodus 14:4
    And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.

    Exodus 14:7
    I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them. And I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen.

    Exodus 33:18:
    Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."

    1 Chronicles 16:10
    Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

    1 Chronicles 16:24
    Declare his glory among the nations, his marvelous deeds among all peoples.

    1 Chronicles 16:28
    Ascribe to the LORD, O families of nations, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength,

    1 Chronicles 16:29
    ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name. Bring an offering and come before him; worship the LORD in the splendor of his [ Or LORD with the splendor of ] holiness.

    Psalm 4:2
    How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame [ Or you dishonor my Glorious One ] ? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods [ Or seek lies ] ? Selah

    Psalm 29:9
    The voice of the LORD twists the oaks [ Or LORD makes the deer give birth ] and strips the forests bare. And in his temple all cry, "Glory!"

    Psalm 57:5
    Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth.

    Psalm 79:9
    Help us, O God our Savior, for the glory of your name; deliver us and forgive our sins for your name's sake.

    Isaiah 6:3
    And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."

    Isaiah 26:15
    You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself; you have extended all the borders of the land.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The word "glory," as used in the OT, literally means "fat." Kings had glory, because kings were the only ones who usually had enough to eat. They were...fat.

    Fat also implies fullness. The fullness of God is the glory of God. Reconciled humanity is the culmination -- the fullness -- the fatness -- the glory of God's creation.

    Of course God does everything in order to show forth the fullness of creation, for creation is the primary act of God.

    The Exodus 14 statements are written from an exile pov. The fullness of God can only be realized when God's people are restored to their own land. The Exodus 33 statement is Moses saying, "Show me your fullness" -- "I want to see you in your entirety."

    Look at your last reference. "You have extended and enlarged the borders." Again, the concept of fullness or fatness.

    The whole concept of the glory of God is for God's creation to become complete -- to become fat.
     
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  3. Special Revelation

    Special Revelation Active Member

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    New Testament Glory from the book of John.

    1. John 1:14 (Whole Chapter)
      The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, [ Or the Only Begotten] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    2. John 2:11 (Whole Chapter)
      This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

    3. John 8:50 (Whole Chapter)
      I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.

    4. John 8:54 (Whole Chapter)
      Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

    5. John 9:24 (Whole Chapter)
      A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God, [ A solemn charge to tell the truth (see Joshua 7:19)] " they said. "We know this man is a sinner."

    6. John 11:4 (Whole Chapter)
      When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it."

    7. John 11:40 (Whole Chapter)
      Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"

    8. John 12:41 (Whole Chapter)
      Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him.

    9. John 14:13 (Whole Chapter)
      And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

    10. John 15:8 (Whole Chapter)
      This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

    11. John 16:14 (Whole Chapter)
      He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

    12. John 17:4 (Whole Chapter)
      I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

    13. John 17:5 (Whole Chapter)
      And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    14. John 17:10 (Whole Chapter)
      All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

    15. John 17:22 (Whole Chapter)
      I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:

    16. John 17:24 (Whole Chapter)
      "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

     
  4. Special Revelation

    Special Revelation Active Member

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    New Testament glory in the book of Revelation.

    Revelation 1:6(Whole Chapter)
    To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

    Revelation 4:9(Whole Chapter)
    Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,

    Revelation 4:11(Whole Chapter)
    "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

    Revelation 5:12(Whole Chapter)
    In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"

    Revelation 5:13(Whole Chapter)
    Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

    Revelation 7:12(Whole Chapter)
    saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!"

    Revelation 11:13(Whole Chapter)
    At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    Revelation 14:7(Whole Chapter)
    He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

    Revelation 15:4(Whole Chapter)
    Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."

    Revelation 15:8(Whole Chapter)
    And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

    Revelation 18:7(Whole Chapter)
    Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'

    Revelation 19:1(Whole Chapter)
    [ Hallelujah! ] After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

    Revelation 19:7(Whole Chapter)
    Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.

    Revelation 21:11(Whole Chapter)
    It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

    Revelation 21:23(Whole Chapter)
    The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

    Revelation 21:26(Whole Chapter)
    The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
     
  5. Special Revelation

    Special Revelation Active Member

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    1. John 17:24
      "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

    1. 2 Thessalonians 1

      All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith. We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    We have seen the fullness -- the completeness -- the fatness of the one God in the person of Jesus, because Jesus is the fullness of creation.

    In doing missionary work with the Masai tribe, Vincent Donovan had this to say to them: "I say to you Masai: you have not known man, you have never seen a man. Creation is not yet finished [for the non-believer]. What you see [as a non-believer] is creation groaning and moaning even until now, yearning to be finished and completed, to be the body of God.

    "But suppose the fullness of time had come and the work of God was perfect, and there appeared a man who was perfectly a man, according to the plan of God, a man completely human. If, once upon a time, there was such a man who was so completely a man, so perfectly human, then there would be no other way to describe him than to say: this man is God -- God appearing in the universe. Isn't that so? Jesus was that man.

    "Perhaps the really surprising thing that the man Jesus did in his lifetime was to show us, not only what God is, but what man is."
    Christianity Rediscovered, pg. 57.
     
  7. Special Revelation

    Special Revelation Active Member

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    Could you please give me a link to "Christianity Rediscovered" so I can read the article? I think the tile itself appears to be a red flag. There is much that I strongly disagree with you in your postings.
     
  8. angellous_evangellous

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    Great work, soj. Frubals be with you.:angel2:
     
  9. angellous_evangellous

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    Many preachers are doing just that. ;)
     
  10. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    How incredibly arrogant.
     
  11. angellous_evangellous

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    Yeah, it seems that way, doesn't it? I think he's misinterpreting Paul... it is the entire creation, unbelievers and believers alike, that yearn for redemption.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It's not an article -- it's a book, "Christianity Rediscovered," by Fr. Vincent Donovan, a Catholic missionary in Africa. (Orbis Books, 2004), available through Cokesbury.
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Of course it is. But he was preaching specifically to unbelievers who had no earthly concept of Christ. He doesn't misinterpret Paul, rather, he adapts Paul here.

    Here is an excerpt immediately preceeding the excerpt in question:

    "If God wants to be visible, to appear in the midst of creation, there is only one thing he can do. He must take on human flesh. He would have to create human flesh in his own image and likeness, to walk the earth, to subdue the earth and save it. This is what Jesus has shown us, not only about God, but about man. Not only is God different than we thought. So is man.

    "Man is not just like a fire sputtering for a few moments, then fizzling out, darkness before and after. Man is not the plaything of the universe, not a thing to be teased with happiness and crushed with sorrow, a thing without meaning among the many things of the earth. Man is God appearing in the universe, appearing visibly in the midst of all he created. That changes the meaning of man, doesn't it?

    "I can see you Masai shaking your heads and saying, No! Man is not God. We know man, and he is filled with evil. He fights, he kills, he destroys, he does everything to separate others, and to separate himself from them."

    "I say to you Masai: you have not known man..."
     
  14. angellous_evangellous

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    But are you quite sure, soj, that the author meant what you have in brakets?
     
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    He's talking to a group of non-believers, in order to get them to tumble to the idea of just who and what Jesus was. The thrust isn't really the difference between believers and non-believers. The thrust is actually one of culture. These people had absolutely nothing in which to ground faith. There is a vast difference (Donovan believed) between the way you introduce an American unbeliever, or a European unbeliever, to Christ, and the way you introduce a Masai tribesman to Christ. The whole jist of the book is the discovery, or rather, the rediscovery of his own Christianity, as he endeavored to find a way to evangelize these tribesmen. He takes Paul and adapts him for use here.
     
  16. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    It's much better in context. Thanks, Soj.

    But I agree with A_E, this isn't a "believer" or "non-believer" thing. There are plenty of "believers" in Christ who will shake their heads and say, "No! Man is not God. We know man, and he is filled with evil. He fights, he kills, he destroys, he does everything to separate others, and to separate himself from them." And there are plenty of "believers" who'll also disagree that Man is God appearing in the universe, appearing visibly in the midst of all he created. In my experience, "believers" tend to get infuriated when I suggest that.
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No. It's not a believer vs. unbeliever thing. Rather, it's a point-of-reference thing. my use of brackets was to show that, for one who believes, Christ is a given entity. For one who does not believe, Christ is not a given entity.
     
  18. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    glo·ry [​IMG] [​IMG] (glôr'ē, glōr'ē) Pronunciation Key
    n. pl. glo·ries
    1. Great honor, praise, or distinction accorded by common consent; renown.
    2. Something conferring honor or renown.
    3. A highly praiseworthy asset: Your wit is your crowning glory.
    4. Adoration, praise, and thanksgiving offered in worship.
    5. Majestic beauty and splendor; resplendence: The sun set in a blaze of glory.
    6. The splendor and bliss of heaven; perfect happiness.
    7. A height of achievement, enjoyment, or prosperity: ancient Rome in its greatest glory.
    So basically everything God does is to satisfy his own enormous ego. How again is this not selfish? By the way, the question wasn't mine. It was Victor's and I was being nice about it 1) so as not to misrepresent Victor and 2) because I'm a nice person. It has nothing to do with doing God any favors or anything else that might "glorify" him. You should consider the possibility that someone can be polite without even remotely supporting God. Perhaps I should be more clear about it though:

    It figures that you would see it that way since apparently God is using the whole universe to prop himself up. That's okay though. That's a concept I can run with because I do think God is that egotistical, arrogant, self-centered, and petty.

    Sounds like you're doing Lucifer's work. ;)
     
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  19. *Paul*

    *Paul* Jesus loves you

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    Everthing will work out to the glory of God, His grace will be magnified, His justice will no longer be scorned at or murmered against, Jesus will be adored and worshipped and calvary will fill us with such awe when we truly comprehend just who He is who suffered and died for us and realise that it was all according to his mercy, that there was nothing in us that merited the shedding of the blood of the Son of God. I look forward to the day when we will sing:

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
     
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  20. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother, amen.
     
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