God Debate

[Tawn]

My question is HOW does the cell know to divide? Where does that information come from?

The problem is youre approaching the issue with a particular type of answer in mind... pah's post indicated that it may not be something 'programmed' into the cell but just a natural result of natural laws..
of course that doesnt explain how human cell production is regulated and controlled..

 

[michel]

My question is HOW does the cell know to divide? Where does that information come from?

You don't need to have 'information' - it is pure physics :-
.............."the volume of the cell gets too much for the surface area."..............
Besides, if Qtpi said so, she must be right.

 

[almifkhar]

did it ever enter anyones mind that perhaps god is nature? evloution is a part of nature and so is creation. pherhaps thinking about the deep subject of nature itself is the key in understanding the issue of god.

 

[pandamonk]

did it ever enter anyones mind that perhaps god is nature? evloution is a part of nature and so is creation. pherhaps thinking about the deep subject of nature itself is the key in understanding the issue of god.

But can nature really have the same attributes as a god? Omnipotent-I suppose(If it is possible. I don't think it is). Omnipresent-well nature is everywhere so yeah. Omniscient-Hmmm does nature really have the ability to think? Hmm I don't think so. Omnibenevolent - well the main law of nature is "survival of the fittest" is that really "all-loving"? Nah. Perfect-well how can you define perfectness? a huge part of nature is death which really means nature isn't perfect as everything has an ending.

 

[pandamonk]

of course that doesnt explain how human cell production is regulated and controlled..

What I have read has told me that it is the DNA which controls how human cell production is regulated and controlled

 

[Tawn]

did it ever enter anyones mind that perhaps god is nature? evloution is a part of nature and so is creation. pherhaps thinking about the deep subject of nature itself is the key in understanding the issue of god.

Yes, but if God is nature.. then what does it matter if you worship it or not? Just respect nature (which is a philosophy I think would do the world a great deal of good).

 

[pandamonk]

Yes, but if God is nature.. then what does it matter if you worship it or not? Just respect nature (which is a philosophy I think would do the world a great deal of good).

good point! :jam:

 

[chuck010342]

The problem is youre approaching the issue with a particular type of answer in mind...

quite true.

pah's post indicated that it may not be something 'programmed' into the cell but just a natural result of natural laws..

I was looking for what is not indicated but said. Natural result of Natural laws? what does natural mean?

of course that doesnt explain how human cell production is regulated and controlled..

nope

 

[chuck010342]

What I have read has told me that it is the DNA which controls how human cell production is regulated and controlled

There it is agian more information (DNA)

 

[chuck010342]

You don't need to have 'information' - it is pure physics :-

isn't physics information?

.............."the volume of the cell gets too much for the surface area."..............
Besides, if Qtpi said so, she must be right. [/QUOTE]

the all knowing Qtpi

 

[pandamonk]

isn't physics information?

not the information you're meaning. Physics is the type of science that deals with that type of question. Physics is not sumthing you can find in things. The "things" may have parts in which physics can explain but the parts are not "physics" lol

 

[pandamonk]

There it is agian more information (DNA)

Your question was "HOW does the cell know to divide" the cell, as far as i know, doesn't have the means to obtain knowledge. So it doesn't know to do anything. It just does it. As stated before "the volume of the cell gets too much for the surface area." and so for the cell to survive it splits into 2. The way it has evolved to do so.

I suggest looking at these:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/160020.htm
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/158049.htm
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/142085.htm
especially these:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/130191.htm
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/123440.htm
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/075868.htm
This is a good one:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/105283.htm :jam:

Just look at anything on that site, very good site

 

[pandamonk]

ohh I'm liking this one

http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/heaven.htm

 

[pandamonk]

why's no one posting in here anymore? what happened?

 

[almifkhar]

pandamonk
first of all nature is perfect. and who says god has to be all loving? as far as your statement about death, death is part of the life cycle. other creatures benifit off of your dead carcas. as far as nature not being able to think, who says it doesen't? there are many, many things about the universe that we humans simply don't understand let alone know of.

 

[pandamonk]

first of all nature is perfect.

what do you mean by"perfect"? in what way is nature perfect. disability is not perfect, even perfectly working, the body is not perfect. take the eye. even with 20 20(supposedly perfect)vision there is still a blind spot(imperfect). If nature was perfect the eye would be perfect. As the eye is not perfect, nature is not perfect.

and who says god has to be all loving?

ok, the definition of a god states that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If "God" does not posses all of these qualities
then he/she/it/whatever cannot be considered a god

as far as your statement about death, death is part of the life cycle. other creatures benifit off of your dead carcas.

If nature was perfect, there would be no need for evolution. Are you saying you do not believe in evolution? If not I will show you the proof.

as far as nature not being able to think, who says it doesen't?

Who says it does? Nature is not a being, it's just the way the world works. It's a word made up by humans to name "The material world and its phenomena."

there are many, many things about the universe that we humans simply don't understand let alone know of.

this is the only thing that, i feel, is true in your post.

 

[almifkhar]

pandamonk

in reference to the cycle of life i.e. death. i was not even referring to evloution. i was referring to how when things die, a star, a mammal, a tree, etc. life comes from it. this is how other things can eat, this is also another way for things to be born. when a star explodes or a galaxy collides with another, new stars are born. when an animal or tree die, animals eat from it which allows them to live, or they also lay their eggs in it so another generation can start out with food.

as far as the god is all loving bit, god just like nature is dual in every aspect you can think of. this is stated in all holy books.

again with the idea that i have that nature is perfect. it is dual again in every aspect you can think of. from birth comes death and from death come life. when a wild fire happens (naturally) it brings food for the beings to feed from. when a earthquake happens it means that the earth is doing its natural thing. for if the earth did not move it would probably just explode under all that pressure.

now i cant say that for sure 100% that nature thinks, no one can just like no one can say for sure god exists or dosn't. i don't think that things happen just to happen in the natural world, i think that there are reasons for these things.

there is an old idea where the relationship with you and god are concerned and to my knowledge every religion says the same thing. if you want to get closer to god and find yourself at the same time, get into nature and live in it for a while. this means go out to the woods and spend some time in a place that man and all of his crap are far away from. look around, meditate, and try to understand nature.

 

[pandamonk]

pandamonkin reference to the cycle of life i.e. death. i was not even referring to evloution. i was referring to how when things die, a star, a mammal, a tree, etc. life comes from it. this is how other things can eat, this is also another way for things to be born. when a star explodes or a galaxy collides with another, new stars are born. when an animal or tree die, animals eat from it which allows them to live, or they also lay their eggs in it so another generation can start out with food.

I know all this but if your god was omnibenevolent and omnipotent he/she/it would make it all possible without death. All-loving/good/caring etc + all-powerful = perfectness, ie no evil,pain, suffering, death. Yet all of these are common in our lives, so your God has to lose one of his/her attributes, which would make them unable to be a god.

as far as the god is all loving bit, god just like nature is dual in every aspect you can think of. this is stated in all holy books.

What do you mean by "dual in every aspect"?

now i cant say that for sure 100% that nature thinks, no one can just like no one can say for sure god exists or dosn't. i don't think that things happen just to happen in the natural world, i think that there are reasons for these things.

Why, because you want there to be?

there is an old idea where the relationship with you and god are concerned and to my knowledge every religion says the same thing. if you want to get closer to god and find yourself at the same time, get into nature and live in it for a while. this means go out to the woods and spend some time in a place that man and all of his crap are far away from. look around, meditate, and try to understand nature.

But i don't believe in a god, so how can i get close to a god? If something doesn't exist it is impossible to get close to it. And ok i need to find myself, ohh here I am. lol. You don't even know me. Why do you think I need to find myself? Don't try and tell me what I need to do when you don't even know me. I do understand nature, what makes you think i don't? because i have a different belief from you? So you're just basically saying, "I know nature, and you don't because you don't believe what i believe, and I'm right." Well how do you know you are right?

Also you just ignored my point about nature not being perfect. Here is what i said:
what do you mean by"perfect"? in what way is nature perfect. disability is not perfect, even perfectly working, the body is not perfect. take the eye. even with 20 20(supposedly perfect)vision there is still a blind spot(imperfect). If nature was perfect the eye would be perfect. As the eye is not perfect, nature is not perfect.

 

[almifkhar]

i am sorry that you took my statement as a pesonal afront and by the way you shouldn't have. i was not in any way shape or form attacking you. as far as you not believing in god. sugar, i could care less whether or not you believe or not. this was not the point i was making. as as far as finding ones self, honey, nobody fully knows themself, NOBODY! this statement was about a spiritual quest that all religions and even some shrinks suggest. so again don't take it personal, there is no reason to. the best book i can suggest to you on the duality of god is called The Bhagavad-Gita. it is a hindu text that is not long at all and it can explain it better to you than i can. i strongly suggest reading the enitre book. you bring up eye vision going bad and disabilieies. who says that is is not in the plans of things? and speaking of the plans of things, when one loses his eyesight, he must then relay on his other senses. perhaps maybe these other senses are the ones he should have been relaying on in the first place. and disabilities, yes some things are genetic, but many are the result of man. you know pollution and things such as this. survival of the fittest is always the name of the game in life. like is said before i don't not in any way shape or form believe that god is all loving. i could care less what the dictionary has to say about it. read the holy books and you will see with you own eyes written in black and white that god is not all loving. besides think of what life would be like if there were no death, confusion, disabilities,etc. life would be borring and god would probably be bored stiff. you make it sound like this is suspose to be some kind of utopia where nothing bad happens. it was written by many a ancient culture through religon that once apon a time we lived in a utopia. but because of our courisity, we pissed off the great sprirt and so we were left to our own devices. this is the world we live in now. as a result of this, bad things happen and these things are happen as a way for us to learn from them. just because you or me think that life should be a certin way doesn't mean that the next guy would agree with us let alone a god.

 

[almifkhar]

oh yea one more thing to add, it is foolish to say that god does not exist for it has not been proven either way. there is a possibility to everything and we should be open to them all no matter if it goes against our belief or not. a good example of this would be for me to say to you that a u.f.o. landed in my driveway and i invited the alliens into my home and we had a intresting chat. i can't prove it did happen with out a picture or a tape of the conversation and you couldn't prove it didn't. but you would still have to be open to the idea that perhaps it did.