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God as the proselytizer

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I've been around long enough to hear a few stories. There seems to be two general methods that get people keenly interested in Hinduism, either by adopting or converting, or in the case of born Hindus, getting a more serious adult interest than what the parent programming is from childhood.

The first way is by searching for something that makes sense, or reading about it, and having it kick in intellectually as something that resonates with your logic. I would call this the intellectual approach.

The other way is substantially different. I've heard many stories of someone having a dream, a vision in deep meditation, driving by a Hindu temple and wondering, seeing a picture or a statue, or observing another devotee who seems to be in bliss. I would call call this the intuitive approach. These things come UNBIDDEN. The person isn't looking for it at all. Is this God as proselytizer, sort of? In the other approach, you're looking, and it's your selection, your doing.

Which general method brought you to theistic Hinduism? Atheist Hindus need not respond, as this question doesn't apply to you.
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
For me? It was the latter. Even when I was a Catholic, I would have dreams and visions of Shiva and Ganesha. I felt an almost "I'm home" feeling when I first went to a Hindu temple...It felt right. I often wonder if I was Hindu in a past life, because of how deeply it affected me, and still affects me.

And even as a little kid, I would read about the Hindu Gods and love them. The stories, the colors, the serene smiles. I would say, all of this brought me home.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
The first way is by searching for something that makes sense, or reading about it, and having it kick in intellectually as something that resonates with your logic. I would call this the intellectual approach.

The other way is substantially different. I've heard many stories of someone having a dream, a vision in deep meditation, driving by a Hindu temple and wondering, seeing a picture or a statue, or observing another devotee who seems to be in bliss. I would call call this the intuitive approach. These things come UNBIDDEN. The person isn't looking for it at all. Is this God as proselytizer, sort of? In the other approach, you're looking, and it's your selection, your doing.

I replied to a similar question not so long ago: For converts, when did it "click" for you that this was the path for you?

I went a long, gradual way, from Catholicism to theosophy to Advaita to Buddhism and I ended up with Hare Krishna because it seemed like the best synthesis of it all. The Hare Krishnas use scripture in a similar way like Christians do (at Bible class they told us Hindus had no scripture) so when I found a nice picture of Krishna with a quote from the Bhagavad Gita (Bg. 9.29: I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.), I decided that I wanted to be friends with that "foreign" god who seemed so self-confident and serene, so much unlike the Christian god. I do admit the translation is not 100% accurate but it was that quote which struck me and as it was taken from a "scripture" it seemed alright.

In my case, I guess I have to admit that proselytizing does work, because I first became interested in Krishna when I saw the pictures of him in a "Krsna Book" forced upon my uncle by a Hare Krishna missionary.

The first way is by searching for something that makes sense, or reading about it, and having it kick in intellectually as something that resonates with your logic. I would call this the intellectual approach.

The other way is substantially different. I've heard many stories of someone having a dream, a vision in deep meditation, driving by a Hindu temple and wondering, seeing a picture or a statue, or observing another devotee who seems to be in bliss. I would call call this the intuitive approach. These things come UNBIDDEN. The person isn't looking for it at all. Is this God as proselytizer, sort of? In the other approach, you're looking, and it's your selection, your doing.

I wouldn’t take these two approaches so far apart as I see my faith as a synthesis of cold, rational considerations (had been a Buddhist) and the devotional aspect (Christianity). However, I never felt truly “at home” in Christianity, because of the guilt trip, emotional blackmail, “duty to believe” etc. One day, I sat in Mass, listening to those “Lord have mercy” prayers and a little voice inside me said “What if God actually responded to you and you can’t ‘hear’ it because you’ve busy endlessly moaning at him with all those “Lord have mercys”. This was the starting point for my quest.

The first way is by searching for something that makes sense, or reading about it, and having it kick in intellectually as something that resonates with your logic. I would call this the intellectual approach.

I’d say this approach can be more than merely intellectual, it can be need-fulfilling and thus, emotional. If you study Prabhupada’s life, he came from a well-off middle class family but – justified or not – he felt stuck in an unhappy marriage and left behind by the members of his family. So, he was critical of family life as a fake source of happiness and he was against consumerism because he had failed in business. Thus, he was able to appeal to middle class kids who “had everything but love” (I know this may sound incredibly cheesy but it sometimes sticks). And contrary to many Christians, he appeals to “common sense” and is able to “substantiate” his arguments rather than merely threatening or emotionally blackmailing the reader. And yes, he is polemical, but he sounded “radical” and I liked it.

I had been critical of society in general as I have a visual impairment and a certain type of “successful” people enjoy themselves making fun of me, slapping each other on the shoulder showing how “cool” they are while mocking me. I know that in society, there are many decent people, too, but during puberty, when most people gather in their peer group, I was left outside. So, you probably can imagine how much “society” disgusted me. I wanted to be with people who were “better”, more “sensitive”, who saw me as a “soul” rather than reducing me to my body. Of course, there are also fundamentalists and loons in Hare Krishna, but many of them indeed had a special “quality” in them, a kind of sincere intellectual quest, a kind of sensitivity I admire. I felt they were “trying to be different”. Moreover, I was impressed by the sincerely humble way they served prasadam. Yes, there is communion in church, but its not really comparable to prasadam. The Bible says that Christians should serve each other and “wash each other’s feet” but where I live, the regular clientele in church is rather about middle class people displaying how much they are “the pillars of society”. I couldn’t really imagine anyone of them “washing each other’s feet”. In contrast, I was impressed by the amount of work Hare Krishnas put into preparing prasadam, about their “generosity” in serving it, in their way of walking barefoot while serving and only eating after everybody else had eaten. I liked listening to the spiritual conversations they had while they were eating. They weren’t gossiping or running down other people. So, I felt that these were the “true Christians”, acting in an authentic manner which could be considered somewhat similar to “washing everybody’s feet”.

So, that’s my story. I hope you like it and you can draw some sense from it.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
A combination of both, really. Though it was the second that really made me take note.

I was kind of in a mode of 'searching'. I was exploring different religions, trying to find where I 'fit'. I'd spent my adult life as Pagan(generally speaking, the focus shifted from time to time as to what branch), but with a naturally Eastern mindset, I was recognizing it wasn't necessarily the best fit. Something was missing. I spent some time in a Buddhist group(I was shocked to hear about non-attachment, which I'd tried to talk to my mom about as a little kid, and she sent me to the shrink). This was a absolutely vital experience for me, but I could still see there was something lacking in Buddhism for me, too.

My husband and I were out of town, and were at a religious(all religions) bookstore. I don't know why, but I felt drawn to a large copy of the Bhagavad Gita(with commentary). I bought it. Read it for awhile. I really enjoyed what I read, and it resonated with me, but it wasn't like fireworks or anything. I tried to read a little bit after waking, and mulling on it throughout the day. I remember reading a part in which the author comments "Sri Krishna has so many arms, let him carry your problems for you." I chuckled a bit, and moved on.

I used to have severe anxiety problems. It wasn't a question of "will I have a panic attack today" it was how many, or how intense. I was driving in the car, and one started up. Hyperventilation, pounding heart, all that fun junk. I just felt angry. I didn't want to put up with this anymore. I said something akin to "You want to carry my problems, Krishna? Well, take this crap away from me." And then I felt a hand reach into my chest and remove something. I felt totally calm. Calmer than I can ever remember being. And I got the distinct feeling someone was laughing at me. Not mean laughter, but just gentle and friendly mocking. Joke's on me, I guess!

I radiated calm for a long time. Husband was completely frustrated and perplexed. We'd dwelled on so much negative just together(we were both suffering mild PTSD after a violent home invasion), and this new 'calm' wasn't easy for him to understand. My real adoption of Hinduism began at this point. For my birthday, I requested to go to a temple two hours south. We went(it was a Shiva Abishikam), and the experience was deeply meaningful. Much to his surprise, my husband, who had been accepting, but not personally interested in Hinduism throughout this, felt an instant bond with Shiva upon entering the temple. And that was the beginning of our path.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I wouldn’t take these two approaches so far apart as I see my faith as a synthesis of cold, rational considerations (had been a Buddhist) and the devotional aspect (Christianity). However, I never felt truly “at home” in Christianity, because of the guilt trip, emotional blackmail, “duty to believe” etc. One day, I sat in Mass, listening to those “Lord have mercy” prayers and a little voice inside me said “What if God actually responded to you and you can’t ‘hear’ it because you’ve busy endlessly moaning at him with all those “Lord have mercys”. This was the starting point for my quest.

So, that’s my story. I hope you like it and you can draw some sense from it.

Thank You. Beautiful story. The thing that often hits me is 'on your own volition'. We all have those life-changing moments.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
For me? It was the latter. Even when I was a Catholic, I would have dreams and visions of Shiva and Ganesha. I felt an almost "I'm home" feeling when I first went to a Hindu temple...It felt right. I often wonder if I was Hindu in a past life, because of how deeply it affected me, and still affects me.

And even as a little kid, I would read about the Hindu Gods and love them. The stories, the colors, the serene smiles. I would say, all of this brought me home.
Thank You. It does sound to me like past life stuff.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A combination of both, really. Though it was the second that really made me take note.

I was kind of in a mode of 'searching'. I was exploring different religions, trying to find where I 'fit'. I'd spent my adult life as Pagan(generally speaking, the focus shifted from time to time as to what branch), but with a naturally Eastern mindset, I was recognizing it wasn't necessarily the best fit. Something was missing. I spent some time in a Buddhist group(I was shocked to hear about non-attachment, which I'd tried to talk to my mom about as a little kid, and she sent me to the shrink). This was a absolutely vital experience for me, but I could still see there was something lacking in Buddhism for me, too.

My husband and I were out of town, and were at a religious(all religions) bookstore. I don't know why, but I felt drawn to a large copy of the Bhagavad Gita(with commentary). I bought it. Read it for awhile. I really enjoyed what I read, and it resonated with me, but it wasn't like fireworks or anything. I tried to read a little bit after waking, and mulling on it throughout the day. I remember reading a part in which the author comments "Sri Krishna has so many arms, let him carry your problems for you." I chuckled a bit, and moved on.

I used to have severe anxiety problems. It wasn't a question of "will I have a panic attack today" it was how many, or how intense. I was driving in the car, and one started up. Hyperventilation, pounding heart, all that fun junk. I just felt angry. I didn't want to put up with this anymore. I said something akin to "You want to carry my problems, Krishna? Well, take this crap away from me." And then I felt a hand reach into my chest and remove something. I felt totally calm. Calmer than I can ever remember being. And I got the distinct feeling someone was laughing at me. Not mean laughter, but just gentle and friendly mocking. Joke's on me, I guess!

I radiated calm for a long time. Husband was completely frustrated and perplexed. We'd dwelled on so much negative just together(we were both suffering mild PTSD after a violent home invasion), and this new 'calm' wasn't easy for him to understand. My real adoption of Hinduism began at this point. For my birthday, I requested to go to a temple two hours south. We went(it was a Shiva Abishikam), and the experience was deeply meaningful. Much to his surprise, my husband, who had been accepting, but not personally interested in Hinduism throughout this, felt an instant bond with Shiva upon entering the temple. And that was the beginning of our path.

Beautiful story. Little wonder You are Hindu today. Thanks for sharing the 'hand in the chest removing stress' personal story. That indeed would be life changing.

On a side note, if that's the temple in Madrid, who is the presiding deity there?
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Beautiful story. Little wonder You are Hindu today. Thanks for sharing the 'hand in the chest removing stress' personal story. That indeed would be life changing.

On a side note, if that's the temple in Madrid, who is the presiding deity there?


Balaji is the main deity, and there is a large shrine for Krishna on the right, and one on the left for Rama. The left side of the temple has shrines for Durga, Saraswati, Swami Narayan, and Lakshmi, and the right side of the temple has shrines for Murugan, Ganesh, Ma Parvati, and a large Shivalingam. I hear a Hanuman shrine will go in soon, but I'm not sure where.(Covid has temporarily halted visits.)

I believe the temple is technically a Vaishnava one, but because there are few temples in the area, it seeks to be available for all.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Balaji is the main deity, and there is a large shrine for Krishna on the right, and one on the left for Rama. The left side of the temple has shrines for Durga, Saraswati, Swami Narayan, and Lakshmi, and the right side of the temple has shrines for Murugan, Ganesh, Ma Parvati, and a large Shivalingam. I hear a Hanuman shrine will go in soon, but I'm not sure where.(Covid has temporarily halted visits.)

I believe the temple is technically a Vaishnava one, but because there are few temples in the area, it seeks to be available for all.

Thanks. I'd call it Smarta with Balaji being the ishta. It's a common type of temple in America, maybe the most common.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I really don’t know what did it. It was a gradual on and off, ratcheting up. I remember as far back as 5th grade, 10 years old writing a story about a visit to Earth by Indra. I got a lot of stuff wrong but I don’t know how I knew what little I did. I am from a somewhat insular Italian-American Catholic family, so I don’t know what influenced me.

By the time I was about 13 or 14 I developed an interest in India, Indian culture and music, thanks in no small part to George Harrison. I remember when I was about 15-16 explaining to someone that Hindus actually believe in one God. In senior year of high school I remember my chemistry teacher (she was great... I used to bring her cactus seedlings to raise :D) asking what the symbol was I wrote at the top of all my assignments. It was the pranava. I also decided that when I could I was going to get it tattooed on my right delt, and I did years later.

Still when I left Catholicism for Orthodoxy I believed the gods to be facets of God, Jesus was just another one, the one I was familiar with. To this day I’m still iffy about his divinity, but it’s just a thought experiment. It’s really irrelevant in the grand scheme.

While I was an “agnostic deist”, after deciding Christianity didn’t make sense, I guess I was now open to the gods to do their thing. During runs and gym workouts I prayed to Hanuman. In fact I called out his name to thank him as I finished a race. I started learning more, then in February 2011 (I had recently had my first back surgery, so I remember the timeframe) I got my first little resin murtis and decided to make a shrine. I had quit taking guitar lessons to learn on my own. I printed a small picture of Saraswati for my music area. I have a small statue now.

And that’s that. I always said I must have been Hindu in a past life or lives. I don’t know how I could have been so influenced so young. :shrug:
 

Vinidra

Jai Mata Di!
When I was about 11 or so, I read a series of books where the main character was Hindu. Up until that point, I had never heard of Hinduism, even though I already knew that the Southern Baptist church my family was a part of was not for me. I studied a lot about Hinduism after reading those books because it fascinated me, but most of what I found had a distinct Vaishnava slant. Nothing against Vaishnavas, of course, but it didn't quite resonate with me.

I went through college and the rest of my 20s, claiming to be agnostic, but what I really meant by that was "I believe in a higher power, but I don't know enough about it to talk about it."

When I was about...32, maybe?...I was going through a tough time. I'd tried talking to the Abrahamic God and got no response whatsoever. One night, I just prayed that "whoever might be out there" would let me know they were there and could hear me.

She showed herself in her MahaSaraswati aspect. I didn't see anything physically, but I felt her presence and just knew, somehow, that this was Mother Saraswati. It was a feeling of "You have always been my child."

And that's what started it. I did a lot of research, and Saraswati led me to her other aspects, Lakshmi, Kali, Durga, and all the rest. And now here I am!
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
When I was about 11 or so, I read a series of books where the main character was Hindu. Up until that point, I had never heard of Hinduism, even though I already knew that the Southern Baptist church my family was a part of was not for me. I studied a lot about Hinduism after reading those books because it fascinated me, but most of what I found had a distinct Vaishnava slant. Nothing against Vaishnavas, of course, but it didn't quite resonate with me.

I went through college and the rest of my 20s, claiming to be agnostic, but what I really meant by that was "I believe in a higher power, but I don't know enough about it to talk about it."

When I was about...32, maybe?...I was going through a tough time. I'd tried talking to the Abrahamic God and got no response whatsoever. One night, I just prayed that "whoever might be out there" would let me know they were there and could hear me.

She showed herself in her MahaSaraswati aspect. I didn't see anything physically, but I felt her presence and just knew, somehow, that this was Mother Saraswati. It was a feeling of "You have always been my child."

And that's what started it. I did a lot of research, and Saraswati led me to her other aspects, Lakshmi, Kali, Durga, and all the rest. And now here I am!

That is beautiful. Lately, I have been exploring and learning more about the Mother Goddess, especially in her forms as Maa Kali and Maa Tara.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. or in the case of born Hindus, getting a more serious adult interest than what the parent programming is from childhood.

Atheist Hindus need not respond, as this question doesn't apply to you.
I won't (after this post) but you would have to answer before Shiva as to why? And he knows me very well. You said:

"or in the case of born Hindus, getting a more serious adult interest than what the parent programming is from childhood."

Then I think there is a grammatical mistake. You said "Atheist Hindus" and followed it by "doesn't apply to you". The first is plural, the second is singular. "You all" would have been OK. :D :D
"You want to carry my problems, Krishna? Well, take this crap away from me." And then I felt a hand reach into my chest and remove something. I felt totally calm. Calmer than I can ever remember being. And I got the distinct feeling someone was laughing at me. Not mean laughter, but just gentle and friendly mocking. Joke's on me, I guess!
'Prapatti', Just George.You surrendered, he took over.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I won't (after this post) but you would have to answer before Shiva as to why? And he knows me very well. You said:

"or in the case of born Hindus, getting a more serious adult interest than what the parent programming is from childhood."

Then I think there is a grammatical mistake. You said "Atheist Hindus" and followed it by "doesn't apply to you". The first is plural, the second is singular. "You all" would have been plural. :D :D

Oh I knew you'd answer. You can't resist.

So now you're correcting an English speaking teacher on his grammar? (Incorrectly, by the way. 'You' is perfectly fine as a plural, and 'you all' is incorrect colloquial American) ) So much for the infallibility of enlightenment.

You - Wikipedia
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know whether or not to respond, because I don't consider myself a theistic Hindu nor an atheist Hindu.

A mystical experience shaped my worldview and ultimately brought me to Hinduism, so I suppose that may qualify under the second option. If that's the case, it was I that was proselytizer. ;)

It was probably a bit of the first as well, for had I not had been told by a theosophist friend that my worldview was very much in line with Hinduism, or had I not subsequently read about Hinduism, I would not have know that Hinduism aligned with my worldview.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't consider myself a theistic Hindu nor an atheist Hindu.

Do you believe gods exist? Whether Hindu, Buddhist, particularly Vajrayana, Pagan? Whether you worship them or not? Even if they’re archetypes? Dan McCoy, an author of Norse theology says, for example Thor is not the god of thunder. He is the god thunder i.e. he is thunder. Then I’d call that theistic. Either way it doesn’t affect your spiritual journey. You can believe they exist but be irrelevant to you.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you believe gods exist? Whether Hindu, Buddhist, particularly Vajrayana, Pagan? Whether you worship them or not? Even if they’re archetypes? Dan McCoy, an author of Norse theology says, for example Thor is not the god of thunder. He is the god thunder i.e. he is thunder. Then I’d call that theistic. Either way it doesn’t affect your spiritual journey. You can believe they exist but be irrelevant to you.

Your last sentence hit the nail squarely on the head.

I identify as a transtheist.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I don't know whether or not to respond, because I don't consider myself a theistic Hindu nor an atheist Hindu.

A mystical experience shaped my worldview and ultimately brought me to Hinduism, so I suppose that may qualify under the second option. If that's the case, it was I that was proselytizer. ;)

It was probably a bit of the first as well, for had I not had been told by a theosophist friend that my worldview was very much in line with Hinduism, or had I not subsequently read about Hinduism, I would not have know that Hinduism aligned with my worldview.

Thanks for the elucidation. The mystical experiences would be number 2, but that got backed up with logic. I never intended the OP to be an either/or proposition. I think all of us have both in there somewhat. The non-mystic belief that really got me, back a few decades ago was the inclusivity, and non-judgmental bit. I was truly impressed with that.
 
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