dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I argree with all of this except:
it is a sweet sentiment.
Be honest please.
it isn't sweet?
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God and the Enemies of God
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
it is a sweet sentiment.
Be honest please.
it isn't sweet?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
God's love is Unconditional. Why? It is the only intelligent way to be.
For a being capable of creating universes, what are a few wayward children? Not really much of a problem.
Free choice is crucial to learning. Those bad choices will return to show what those choices really mean. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will pick the Best choices.
In time, everyone will learn to Love Unconditionally. Why? The good choices will also return to teach us what they really mean. Isn't Unconditional Love what everyone wants returning??? Yes, given enough lifetimes and lessons, all the kiddies will figure this one out. We will all Discover what it takes to truly create a Heavenly state.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
As Above So Below. We are animated by the breath/ spirit of God, and are ourselves Spirit and thus are ourselves God - one and the same. Even as a cup of water drawn from the ocean is of the same nature and quality, if not quantity, as the ocean.
Going further, the water in the cup (the individual) may (and has) develop an individual identity, replete with goals, desires and ambitions, likes and aversions, and opinions on the works of its "Father Ocean". Also, because it is constricted and confined to operate exclusively through its vessel/cup, (which from experience I know to be inexpressively unpleasant), it may begin to curse the Ocean for its separation, or deny the Ocean, or to develop various antagonistic moods and opinions against the Ocean.
Because of separation and continued confinement, the water in the cup (individual) would lose (or surpress) the trademark qualities of the Ocean. The Water(Spirit) might begin to "congeal" into more or less distorted, tragic semblances of its Father Ocean. The water in the cup, over generations, would mutate infinitely into all shades and shapes and different beverages so as to f forget entirely its divine origin and essential nature as "Ocean".
Inevitably an underground resistance would form, a Path or Technology, by which the Cups of Water could either dissolve the barrier between self and Ocean(Spirit) and merge again with it's Father Ocean, or otherwise, to unlock the powers latent in it's own nature and become it's own Ocean, it's own fully realized God, by alchemizing the Water in its own Cup.
That's the best metaphor I have. God is Spirit, we are Individualized Spirit Beings compressed, or perhaps depressed, into mutable flesh/mind matrices, with the potential for Godhood. That God Nature within us, and the Spirit that animates and sustains continually the processes and cycles of Nature, is the so-revered "Love" of God that is unfailing and unquenchable - in my humble, limited opinion.
What sayeth you, Wise One?
(edited for mild grammar/punctuation errors).
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it's sweetI argree with all of this except:
it is a sweet sentiment.
Be honest please.
it isn't sweet?
When one can love without respect to person, then self has become a God, a love.
There is no greater love in all the world than that of a friend who would set aside their desires for someone in need.
Pure love undefiled before God the Father is to love all as self, or I am that I am.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Muslims might not, but there is nothing about Christian doctrine that prevents this.
Romans 8 reminds us that nothing can separate us from the love of God through Christ.
And there is only one unforgivable sin. "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit."
What does this mean? Well, in context, Jesus heals someone and they say that he did it it in the name of the devil. That he's basically casting out demons because he's a lord of demons. Jesus responds with his famous "house divided" speech, then tells us about this unforgivable sin.
That is, the one thing you can do wrong, that God can't forgive you believe that God can't forgive you. To accuse the God of being merciless, his Son of being evil, or somehow having a really distorted view of what God wants. Saul is a good example of this, as he seems to have found God's disfavor. It says that the Spirit of the Lord (Holy Spirit) left him, and he became possessed by an evil spirit.
Now why did this happen? I can think of one good reason, "God will never forgive me, so just forget it." I've seen this mentality more often than you might think, but many of the people who most embody this seem to have this whispered in their head.
God has no enemies except those who declare themselves enemies of God. And the moment they forgive themselves, God is ready to forgive them.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Martin Luther, Saint Thomas Aquinas and Augustine would disagree with you as would most puritains anyway. Though it would be false indeed to say that all christian and muslim sects consider apostasy or blasphemy as unforgivable crimes.
PS: for the calvinists it's a bit more complicated since calavinism implies that there are people that God simply never liked and will never like no matter what.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Then you need to reread the passage.
It says nothing. This includes authorities, powers, dominions , etc. So it covers the opinions of other people. They're wrong, btw.
Oh, you mean the latter part. Galatians 1:8 tells us that even an angel claiming to be from God telling us something opposed to the gospel is under a curse (or is it the person who listens?) which means if someone tells us crap that isn't true about who God is, who Jesus is, or who the Holy Spirit is, they can have all the theological or political credentials they want, but they are still wrong.
Btw, I will need an exact quote from each of these people you say contradict me (and Paul by extension).
Blasphemy is an unforgivable crime not because of blasphemy, but because ofsimple logic.
The same logic applies to human relationships, so let's explain it in human terms. Uf I were to for instance badmouth my friend, and say that she is no good. That she's a kid, and kinda grumpy, and she's the reason her ex-bf left... what do you think hapoens if she fhears wordslike these? Right, she's an ex-friend now. Now suppose I come to her house intending to apologize, but instead I am tsundere and tell her that she's not those things, but she's still kinda a loser for not taking an initiative to make up with me. Nope, still not made up. Now, if I go there, intending to be forgiven then even if she decides not to forgive, I have closure.
This is a "you can talk about anything but don't say crap about me or my friends" thing. A sin like this is not forgivable not because God condemns blasphemy (as in Islam) but because typically the context it is used in is a "I've committed too grave a sin, God won't forgive me." In other words, it is unforgivable precisely because we don't think anyone could forgive us. The relationship is shattered by our sense that we are too evil to forgive.
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I think all gods seek to convey that out of necessity.
Associated with appropriate growling, of course.
If you're a god, and you lose your congregation, you're not a god any more.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Love does what is best for all. It doesn't exclude self because that would be less than all. The golden rule doesn't exclude anyone but includes everyone
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
This. Love your neighbor as yourself.
Somehow or other, we got to this definition or altruism.
I'm an Ayn Rand Christian (even though Ayn Rand thought religion inherently flawed), and soundly reject all calls to altruism. It's perfectly okay by me whether you want to martyr yourself (as long as it makes YOU happy and is not done out of guilt, this is your life freely given), or whether you want to only love one person unconditionally (though they probably never match up to your expectations) while telling all others to screw themselves.
There are conditions to love; not those made to others (i.e. I'll love you if you do this) but conditions to not let oneself feel worthless in the process. Love is not sacrifice. If we give to others expecting them to do back for us, we are always disappointed. I remember volunteering, and how I remember stopping that because I always felt exploited.
No appreciation, just an expectation. Well as it turned out, even if they said a word of thank you now and then, I didn't feel it, because the thing I wanted to have done because it felt good to help became "every Thursday I head over to volunteer." If you love something, you ought to be able to do it without expecting back (art as an example, you paint not knowing what your customer will buy, you paint for yourself and for the joy of painting) but when you do that for others, either really love that person or expect to be used. Money won't cut it if you hate the work you are doing.
The issue I have with this question is not whether God exists or not. It's the presumption that God cares about anything, much less loves. It's like asking whether Gravity loves me, or Light. It's anthropomorphizing God in a way that diminishes It, bringing God to a human level with human limitations.
It's reducing God to a limited sentient being, like a human with superpowers. I understand that it makes people feel more comfortable, by reducing God to something relatable and even manipulable.
But, I cannot believe that the Creator, the Ground of Being, the reason that there is something rather than nothing, shares such human limitations and characteristics. It is as far from us as we are from a bacteria.
Tom
when i refer to God, i'm referring to the absolute; which is first an action and having no exact form. it isn't first a thing that then acts. it acts and is a thing but not something from afar but imminent. you can see it's effect but not its cause.
But what makes you think God loves anyone?
I'm convinced that you've been taught a fictional God image. That's not a problem, for me, as long as you realize that and don't try to force your ethical opinions on me or anyone else. But Abrahamic religionists are kinda famous for doing so.
Tom
you have a bias that you're trying to project on to me. what i'm speaking of is a consciousness that is loving, or mindful. thus all is consciousness and forms arise from this in-form-ation. i know what god is. it manifests through me and is me, john 14:20
i'm no more abrahamic than i am brahmanic, because you see, ahmi yat ahmi, nuk pu nuk, ahea ashur ahea, ayam atman brahma, aham brahma asmi, neti neti, take your pick.
they all imply the same thing, I AM no thing because I AM all things.
https://phys.org/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html#:~:text=Until now, however, the no,confirmed the no-hiding theorem.
I AM an idea and an ideal.
i am a knower, gnostic
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Bird123
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I guess my view is that doing what is best for others is what is best for self.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I believe so. And I think it means, He cares and doesn’t do anything evil to them.
But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45