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God and Satan: Same Being

P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
People want to divide up reality into different pieces. They love the positive but they hate the negative. However, most people do not understand it comes from the same source.
God is the positive, life arffirming part of existence. When you see a baby be born, when you have wonderful sex with your partner, when you get a raise-all these things are of the nature of God. You should rejoice over it, welcome it and celebrate it. That is the natural Chosen People response to what God has done.
Satan, alternatively, is savage. He does not give a damn about you. He hates you and will see you die, without mercy or pity. He will try to take a bite out of your vein and cackle while you bleed to death. He relishes pain, agony and depression and to see you DIE. He is the Death, pain, misery, storms that slay, cancer and alzhiemer's disaease.
Yet, He is the Same Being. You might thinks he's different, but he's not. You laugh when you feel good, but you hate when the cancer eats at your body. You praise him when your child is born, but you curse Him when your child dies.
Life and Death, Pain and Pleasure-He is in all these things.

Why should we love Him ? Because he's God and the source of all that is good.
Why should we NOT love him ? Because He is Satan, the opposite of Life and pleasure
WHAT SHOULD WE DO ? I can't answer for you. But for me, it is simple : He's my God.
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Paranoid Android said:
WHAT SHOULD WE DO ?
Click to expand...
Here's my personal take on this as an Advaita/Hindu. We should understand that this earthly plane is by grand design a learning plane of joy and suffering. In the cosmic sense for those like myself that believe we will have many lives and experiences on our path to Self-Realization, our earthly joys and pains are short-lived like passing clouds. We need to accept change and find peace by detachment from expectations and desires and by not identifying just with that little self going through the ups and downs of earthly fortune.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
George-ananda said:
Here's my personal take on this as an Advaita/Hindu. We should understand that this earthly plane is by grand design a learning plane of joy and suffering. In the cosmic sense for those like myself that believe we will have many lives and experiences on our path to Self-Realization, our earthly joys and pains are short-lived like passing clouds. We need to accept change and find peace by detachment from expectations and desires and by not identifying just with that little self going through the ups and downs of earthly fortune.
Click to expand...

Dualism is a lie. People want divide reality, but there is only ONE reality and it's REAL.
 
Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is inconsistency with your idea in that God asks Satan to do things he cannot do.. Historically, Satan comes from ideas that are much older than Jehovah -- some going back a long way... like Enki (pre-2500 BC) and Melek Taus (maybe 4700 BC). There are also parallels in the stories of Pan, Dionysus, Lucifer, Prometheus and others. All of these cultures had their fun loving nature god who shared the magic of art and intellect with humans, but they changed his name to suit their culture. The Christian Devil is merely a cut and paste from the negative aspects of these guys. Jehovah by comparison is a new kid on the block and has no historical precedent pre-2 BC and compared to our Satan fellow we know absolutely nothing about him other than the "Follow me or die" dirge -- in comparison Satan is a more reasonable spiritual choice... He represents things we can see, value, and understand. :)

Thus, to say they are the same is seriously an error in a historical and biblical sense. As far as Advaita goes, "All are One" isn't exactly correct. There are connections in some ways, but there are distinct actors present. I sort of compare this divine stuff to bacteria in that if you start as one you must divide to replicate... In that notion however it is important to understand that each of these divisions created independent beings, and while they contain their aspect of the divine within themselves -- they are free and separate and the source likely killed itself in giving birth as our bacteria do.

Duality isn't a lie... It is a very real thing on this plane of existence, and this is the plane we live on. :) Far be it from me to disdain spiritual pursuits, but we must work with what is given. The duality is here, and is completely apparent... From a rational perspective Advaita is like "I don't like anything around me so it isn't there" -- those ideas apply to ones ego, dualism, and even god. For me, I am not sure whether that is a lack of discernment from our Advaita gurus or just straight out lack of knowledge in the area but in many ways it simply doesn't make sense. Don't ask me to just agree with it though -- the people spouting these things often know much less than I do. Every god, spirit, demon, person, animal, and whatever that I've dealt with is a free actor and definitely not an aspect of "one thing." To say that implies that you have no direct knowledge of them. :)
 
Whiterain

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
Mindmaster said:
There is inconsistency with your idea in that God asks Satan to do things he cannot do.. Historically, Satan comes from ideas that are much older than Jehovah -- some going back a long way... like Enki (pre-2500 BC) and Melek Taus (maybe 4700 BC). There are also parallels in the stories of Pan, Dionysus, Lucifer, Prometheus and others. All of these cultures had their fun loving nature god who shared the magic of art and intellect with humans, but they changed his name to suit their culture. The Christian Devil is merely a cut and paste from the negative aspects of these guys. Jehovah by comparison is a new kid on the block and has no historical precedent pre-2 BC and compared to our Satan fellow we know absolutely nothing about him other than the "Follow me or die" dirge -- in comparison Satan is a more reasonable spiritual choice... He represents things we can see, value, and understand. :)

Thus, to say they are the same is seriously an error in a historical and biblical sense. As far as Advaita goes, "All are One" isn't exactly correct. There are connections in some ways, but there are distinct actors present. I sort of compare this divine stuff to bacteria in that if you start as one you must divide to replicate... In that notion however it is important to understand that each of these divisions created independent beings, and while they contain their aspect of the divine within themselves -- they are free and separate and the source likely killed itself in giving birth as our bacteria do.

Duality isn't a lie... It is a very real thing on this plane of existence, and this is the plane we live on. :) Far be it from me to disdain spiritual pursuits, but we must work with what is given. The duality is here, and is completely apparent... From a rational perspective Advaita is like "I don't like anything around me so it isn't there" -- those ideas apply to ones ego, dualism, and even god. For me, I am not sure whether that is a lack of discernment from our Advaita gurus or just straight out lack of knowledge in the area but in many ways it simply doesn't make sense. Don't ask me to just agree with it though -- the people spouting these things often know much less than I do. Every god, spirit, demon, person, animal, and whatever that I've dealt with is a free actor and definitely not an aspect of "one thing." To say that implies that you have no direct knowledge of them. :)
Click to expand...

That was fabulous, well done, Mindmaster.


It's contemporary theistic concepts of God and the Devil that are all horribly wrong. The figures are far older and the origional story is unfortunately long gone more than likely etched onto some long destroyed tablet in Iraq.

And most people don't even consider the source when they believe in these beings that are misinterpretations of some older myth.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
Mindmaster said:
There is inconsistency with your idea in that God asks Satan to do things he cannot do.. Historically, Satan comes from ideas that are much older than Jehovah -- some going back a long way... like Enki (pre-2500 BC) and Melek Taus (maybe 4700 BC). There are also parallels in the stories of Pan, Dionysus, Lucifer, Prometheus and others. All of these cultures had their fun loving nature god who shared the magic of art and intellect with humans, but they changed his name to suit their culture. The Christian Devil is merely a cut and paste from the negative aspects of these guys. Jehovah by comparison is a new kid on the block and has no historical precedent pre-2 BC and compared to our Satan fellow we know absolutely nothing about him other than the "Follow me or die" dirge -- in comparison Satan is a more reasonable spiritual choice... He represents things we can see, value, and understand. :)

Thus, to say they are the same is seriously an error in a historical and biblical sense. As far as Advaita goes, "All are One" isn't exactly correct. There are connections in some ways, but there are distinct actors present. I sort of compare this divine stuff to bacteria in that if you start as one you must divide to replicate... In that notion however it is important to understand that each of these divisions created independent beings, and while they contain their aspect of the divine within themselves -- they are free and separate and the source likely killed itself in giving birth as our bacteria do.

Duality isn't a lie... It is a very real thing on this plane of existence, and this is the plane we live on. :) Far be it from me to disdain spiritual pursuits, but we must work with what is given. The duality is here, and is completely apparent... From a rational perspective Advaita is like "I don't like anything around me so it isn't there" -- those ideas apply to ones ego, dualism, and even god. For me, I am not sure whether that is a lack of discernment from our Advaita gurus or just straight out lack of knowledge in the area but in many ways it simply doesn't make sense. Don't ask me to just agree with it though -- the people spouting these things often know much less than I do. Every god, spirit, demon, person, animal, and whatever that I've dealt with is a free actor and definitely not an aspect of "one thing." To say that implies that you have no direct knowledge of them. :)
Click to expand...


Let me explain it so you can understand.

God and Satan are one being. There is no other Being in the Universe then this Being. God and Satan are a seemingly duality; it would be like if I had two roles I played in a play. Let's call this Role A and Role B. Is it given to two people ? No. When I acting in my role in Role A, I am let's say, a homeless guy. In Role B, I am a billionaire. Two different roles, two different personalities but ONE PERSON PLAYS BOTH ROLES.
Next, does God choose to be Satan or Satan choose to be God ? No. God has NO CONTROL OVER IT. He can not choose when he will be God or when he will be Satan. The personalities change independent of God's choice.
Now, why doesn't God destroy Satan ? Easy. When the Last Prophet arrives on the scene, he or she will heal God. I think you could understand how aggravating changing personalities would be. He or She will bring in the Golden Age, and we will go out in space to settle planets, e.t.c. The Golden Age is the beginning of things being restored to "normal".
At that time, all Dementheologists will be transformed into angels ( Provided they did not break God's Wisdom, or fail to repent if they did. The standard is higher for our Mystics (Dementhology's ecclesiastical people), who must fulfill the Seven Rungs on Jacob's Ladder). Moreover, we will spread through the universe and establish world's with only disabled people.
 
O

oneeye

Member
I agree. The Alpha and the Omega, first and last, truth and lies, good and evil. God is the sum of all opposites? That idea would upset some but comfort me. A perfect way to keep control as one over all.
 
ThirtyThree

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
Satan represents disobedience to YHVH. He personifies "MY will be done" rather than "THY will be done", in this context. This, I consider to be fact, regardless of what name or title man desires to use in reference to Him.

Satan is not YHVH, nor YHVH's nature rebelling against itself. You have been reading too much alternative spirituality literature. Why must, in your opinion, everything be one? Does this comfort you? In my view, you have thrown away ancient beliefs and texts and replaced them with your own twisted understanding. Why?
 
Luciferi Baphomet

Luciferi Baphomet

Lucifer, is my Liberator
Paranoid Android said:
People want to divide up reality into different pieces. They love the positive but they hate the negative. However, most people do not understand it comes from the same source.
God is the positive, life arffirming part of existence. When you see a baby be born, when you have wonderful sex with your partner, when you get a raise-all these things are of the nature of God. You should rejoice over it, welcome it and celebrate it. That is the natural Chosen People response to what God has done.
Satan, alternatively, is savage. He does not give a damn about you. He hates you and will see you die, without mercy or pity. He will try to take a bite out of your vein and cackle while you bleed to death. He relishes pain, agony and depression and to see you DIE. He is the Death, pain, misery, storms that slay, cancer and alzhiemer's disaease.
Yet, He is the Same Being. You might thinks he's different, but he's not. You laugh when you feel good, but you hate when the cancer eats at your body. You praise him when your child is born, but you curse Him when your child dies.
Life and Death, Pain and Pleasure-He is in all these things.

Why should we love Him ? Because he's God and the source of all that is good.
Why should we NOT love him ? Because He is Satan, the opposite of Life and pleasure
WHAT SHOULD WE DO ? I can't answer for you. But for me, it is simple : He's my God.
Click to expand...
Satan/Lucifer and God are not the same. God created Lucifer to make him the scapegoat him so everyone can blame him while God hides who he really is. In what I learned was that God does not want you to enjoy life, Lucifer wants to free us from God's slavery.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
You've got to be kidding me. You mean people are actually uneducated enough to consider believing something as absurd as this?

:facepalm:
 
ThirtyThree

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
Priestess of Lucifer said:
Satan/Lucifer and God are not the same. God created Lucifer to make him the scapegoat him so everyone can blame him while God hides who he really is. In what I learned was that God does not want you to enjoy life, Lucifer wants to free us from God's slavery.
Click to expand...

Yah created Lucifer to be a scapegoat? What book are you reading?
 
J

jhwatts

Member
Enki, Loki, Thoth, Quetzalcoatl, Poseidon, Jesus, Satan are all the same deity.

Turn Poseidons trident upside down and you get Satan's pitchfork.

Ever wonder why Christian's drive around with a fish on their bumper.
 
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