God and Evolution

[QuestioningMind]

I assure you there are a lot more Christians, Muslims, and Jews who do not believe in evolution than do...

I'd prefer some sort of verifiable data that backs up your claim, instead of simply your mere 'assurance'. Every single poll and study that I can find states the exact opposite. Care to back up your assertion or can we all safely dismiss it ***edit***?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Qur'an said the universe is expanding 1400 years ago.

No, that is almost certainly reinterpretation. The time to claim success is when a holy book makes a prediction that scientific work is based upon, not reinterpreting a verse after the fact and claiming it said something when it did not really do so.

 

[Wasp]

A number of Creation stories describe similar origins. The Hindu creation stories describe a multiverse synario with a cyclic universe beginning, expanding and dieing to be reborn. The description in Genesis as beginning 'let there be light' could be easily interpreted as a Big Bang synario.

This is a bit more than let there be light to say the least.

 

[Vaziri]

I'd prefer some sort of verifiable data that backs up your claim, instead of simply your mere 'assurance'. Every single poll and study that I can find states the exact opposite. Care to back up your assertion or can we all safely dismiss it as a moronic claim that you just pulled from your @ss?

Wow!

 

[Wasp]

I'd prefer some sort of verifiable data that backs up your claim, instead of simply your mere 'assurance'. Every single poll and study that I can find states the exact opposite. Care to back up your assertion or can we all safely dismiss it as a moronic claim that you just pulled from your @ss?

"Lastly, the survey revealed that four in 10 (41%) believe in human evolution compared to 28% who believe in creationism and 31%of the global population who is unsure what to believe.

Four in ten (41%) identify as "as 'evolutionist's' and believe that human beings were in fact created over a long period of time of evolution growing into fully formed human beings they are today from lower species such as apes." Those most likely to believe in this are from Sweden (68%), Germany (65%), China (64%), Belgium (61%) and Japan (60%).

Three in ten (28%) global citizens refer to themselves as "creationists and believe that human beings were in fact created by a spiritual force such as the God they believe in and do not believe that the origin of man came from evolving from other species such as apes" led by those from Saudi Arabia (75%), Turkey (60%), Indonesia (57%), South Africa (56%) and Brazil (47%).

Almost one third (31%) of the global population indicate they "simply don't know what to believe and sometimes agree or disagree with theories and ideas put forward by both creationists and evolutionists". Those from Russia (40%) are most likely to be unsure followed by those from Italy (39%), Argentina (38%), Poland (37%), Spain (37%) and France (36%)."

Ipsos Global @dvisory: Supreme Being(s), the Afterlife and Evolution

 

[Audie]

Is a man the result of evolution from a primate ? They have much in common, but they have many differences as well.

Science once told us that Neanderthals weren´t human, but, of course they were.

I don´t believe your ancestors were baboons, but it is a good bet some were Neanderthalś.

You will have to decide what makes a human, and explain why, if modern people came from primates, none of the alleged line of intermediary forms no longer exist.

Wolves exist, dogs exist, coyoteś exist, dingoś exist, and they can all interbreed and produce offspring.

If you were so inclined, which primate species is there that you could mate with and have offspring ?

Human beings are primates.

Humans and all other living primates appear to be
unable to interbreed, Chimp and gibbon, gorilla and
'utangs, etc.

One could point to similar situations in other mammal families.
We doubt shrew and star nose mole woul be viable.


Bonobos have much in common with gibbons or
people, but there are differences too. Your point
is-?

 

[Wasp]

No, that is almost certainly reinterpretation. The time to claim success is when a holy book makes a prediction that scientific work is based upon, not reinterpreting a verse after the fact and claiming it said something when it did not really do so.

Almost certainly?

After you've mastered the arabic language and studied the Qur'an from 5 to 25 years (whenever you feel ready), you'd better go tell the scholars.

 

[shunyadragon]

This is a bit more than let there be light to say the least.

The history of the universe billions of years old is indeed a bit more than light.. . . to say the least.

 

[Audie]

I see this far too often, and it always, always involves the person who thinks so leaving out something rather important about evolution --- time, and lots and lots and lots of generations! If you had physically lived for a million years or so, you yourself could have seen evolution happen in nature.

And the fact is, that for very short lived species, we are observing evolution happening now, before our very eyes. As we used antibiotics and other medicines to cure a variety of diseases, those diseases have developed resistance to those antibiotics. So now, for example, because we used methicillin, we have MRSA, something that did not exist before we discovered methicillin.

And who saw a volcano form then wash away?
Nobody. So it dont happen.

 

[Wasp]

I believe evolution is the best explanation we have for the existence of humans - and God.

You think it explains the existence of God?

 

[Audie]

Wow, what a nasty post. What are we who come from the lowest rungs of society ?

Low IQ, I think not.

Street people, I think not.

Who has given you the arrogant authority to define who the ¨lowest rungs of society¨ are ?

Ah, I thought it would be understood that
it is the low rungs of socioeconomic /
education ladder I referred to. It is not
exactly a secret that is where the fundamentalist /
evangelical churches draw their numbers,
not from the Ivy league, the Hamptons or the
Upper East Side.

Certainly I dont mean like dregs of society,
far from it. Nor low IQ. Sorry!

My stepdad, a scientist and professor, came from
a poor farm. Nobody else in his family went to
college. He had those hands that said he knew
manual labour!

I said sonething to him about Rednecks, snotty
lil turd that I can be.

He told me, "Min, a Redneck is a man who
will change your tire by the road, give you
the shirt off his back and 20 dollars and
take no thanks, because that is what a man
does. You got lucky, silver spoon in your mouth
but dont you act like you are better than others.
I am not and neither are you."

Sorry for offense and misunderstanding.
Are we ok now?

 

[siti]

If you were so inclined, which primate species is there that you could mate with and have offspring ?

Homo sapiens - but I take it you would prefer non-primate species...OK best not go there I suppose...!!

 

[siti]

You think it explains the existence of God?

I'm sure of it.

 

[Wasp]

I'm sure of it.

Why?

 

[siti]

Why?

Do you suppose their was any anthropomorphic "God" in existence before there was an "athropos" for "God" to be "morphed" in the fashion of? The "God" everyone is talking about here - as in the one that "created" everything and therefore it didn't evolve - that God is an emergent artifact of human cultural evolution which is an emergent feature of reality arising from biological evolution - its about social group dynamics and group survival strategies. That God is very definitely explained by evolution.

That's the easy part - now - do you suppose there is another kind of God? Not the one in whose "name" we deny the evidence of our own experience and senses...not the one who wants to usurp the mantle of "creator" from the very process that gave birth to "him"? Discussing how that "God" might be both the "blind" author and unexpected result of evolution on a much grander scale than mere biology - that would be a much more interesting discussion to me.

 

[shmogie]

Ah, I thought it would be understood that
it is the low rungs of socioeconomic /
education ladder I referred to. It is not
exactly a secret that is where the fundamentalist /
evangelical churches draw their numbers,
not from the Ivy league, the Hamptons or the
Upper East Side.

Certainly I dont mean like dregs of society,
far from it. Nor low IQ. Sorry!

My stepdad, a scientist and professor, came from
a poor farm. Nobody else in his family went to
college. He had those hands that said he knew
manual labour!

I said sonething to him about Rednecks, snotty
lil turd that I can be.

He told me, "Min, a Redneck is a man who
will change your tire by the road, give you
the shirt off his back and 20 dollars and
take no thanks, because that is what a man
does. You got lucky, silver spoon in your mouth
but dont you act like you are better than others.
I am not and neither are you."

Sorry for offense and misunderstanding.
Are we ok now?

Yes, but I challenge your statement that evangelicals are per capita less educated. It may be true, but I have not seen a study on it.

I would draw your attention to members of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. They are young earth creationists, yet I have no doubt that their education per capita is much higher than most demographic groups.

 

[Wasp]

Do you suppose their was any anthropomorphic "God" in existence before there was an "athropos" for "God" to be "morphed" in the fashion of? The "God" everyone is talking about here - as in the one that "created" everything and therefore it didn't evolve - that God is an emergent artifact of human cultural evolution which is an emergent feature of reality arising from biological evolution - its about social group dynamics and group survival strategies. That God is very definitely explained by evolution.

That's the easy part - now - do you suppose there is another kind of God? Not the one in whose "name" we deny the evidence of our own experience and senses...not the one who wants to usurp the mantle of "creator" from the very process that gave birth to "him"? Discussing how that "God" might be both the "blind" author and unexpected result of evolution on a much grander scale than mere biology - that would be a much more interesting discussion to me.

So.... You don't believe in God?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's true to me.

But since it's about me and not true, it is perhaps something you should have kept to yourself.

 

[Wasp]

But since it's about me and not true, it is perhaps something you should have kept to yourself.

It's not about you personally. The world is full of people like you. I was talking about those people and I consider it true and I had no reason not to say it. You said something that isn't true. You haven't been sorry for that yet....

 

[Ellen Brown]

Christians would say "Evolution happens as it is directed by God.

So?