God and Belief

[McBell]

I never said God exists.
I said: "God would still exist even if nobody believed He existed."
I know "God exists" is just a belief because nobody can prove that God exists.

Never said, nor even implied that you did.
You made two claims in the post I quoted.
The first one being:

belief does not make God exist​

the second one being:

God would still exist even if nobody believed He existed​

Instead of addressing either of the points you actually did make in reply to my post, you went way out into left field.
Perhaps you could try again?
Only this time paying attention to not only what I actually posted, but also to what YOU posted....

 

[Trailblazer]

Depends upon how you prep the bias of the jury.

True, that could have an effect.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you think there are no impartial judges? You are either for me or against me, no neutral ground?

I meant that the jury would not be impartial if the jury was convinced that God does not exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

You made two claims in the post I quoted.

1. The first one being: belief does not make God exist
2. The second one being: God would still exist even if nobody believed He existed.

You said: Can you prove that? If not, it is just a belief.

No, I cannot prove that but it is not a belief, it is a logical statement.

God either exists or God does not exist. What people believe has no bearing on it because beliefs do not affect reality.

For example, if there is a red car in my driveway and I do not believe there is a red car in my driveway, that red car would still be in my driveway, because that is reality.

 

[Clara Tea]

We have to take people at their word when they profess belief.

When we analyze their behavior, we often see that flawed humans fall short of perfection.

President W. Bush knew that God said "thou shalt not kill" but went to war in Iraq, killing innocent Iraqis (and it has been established that Iraq was not involved in terrorism).

Should we believe that W. Bush did believe in God (as he constantly alleged)? Or should we believe that he chose to defy God, fully aware that God would punish the world (Example: Revelation 15 (7 plagues), including COVID)?

Obviously belief in God is not enough. We must follow God's laws.

Therefore, God is more important than belief.

There are a lot of really good atheists, and they are supposed to go to hell merely because they don't belie]ve.

I'm certain that those who go to heaven must also atone for their sins. Otherwise, heaven would be filled with murderers and child rapists, and it would be just like hell.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

God is most important but to understand God one must have ability to believe in the unseen, by study Gods teaching wisdom arises in human being.
Faith in the teaching and in God is more important then belief it self.

 

[Heyo]

You said: Can you prove that? If not, it is just a belief.

No, I cannot prove that but it is not a belief, it is a logical statement.

God either exists or God does not exist. What people believe has no bearing on it because beliefs do not affect reality.

For example, if there is a red car in my driveway and I do not believe there is a red car in my driveway, that red car would still be in my driveway, because that is reality.

5 Planes of Existence

Do the US exist? Do the US still exist when people stop believing in them?
(If you have difficulty to answer, try first: Does the Hittite Empire exist?)

Some things simply exist because we believe in them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

Isn't that a bit like asking which is more important, breathing or your heart continuing to beat?

I'm not really big on belief for belief sake. To me faith means faithfulness and obedience, or it is worthless. But I see no reason to say that belief is completely unimportant.

 

[firedragon]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

Important to whom?

 

[Samael_Khan]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

Lets put it this way:

Most religious people care more about what the beliefs of their group say about God than about God himself. This is why there are so many groups whose beliefs about God contradict what their foundational religious texts say about God and that is why there are so many different religious groups.

 

[MikeF]

I think belief is irrelevant, other than to the believer. (And nosey busybodies, it seems.)

I disagree with this statement. A shared belief held by many, whether or not it is a valid belief, can have a profound effect on everyone.

 

[Audie]

God, because belief does not make God exist. God would still exist even if nobody believed He existed.

You got it completely backwards

 

[JustGeorge]

I disagree with this statement. A shared belief held by many, whether or not it is a valid belief, can have a profound effect on everyone.

I suppose that's true, if the believers put actions behind it.

 

[ChristineM]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

There s a book by Terry Pratchett named "small gods"

It s a humorous exposé of what happens to gods when belief in them dies out.

There are/have been literally thousands of god beliefs through recorded history, most disappear without trace thus showing it is belief that holds a god together.

 

[MikeF]

I suppose that's true, if the believers put actions behind it.

You really want to qualify your statement with "if"? How about "when". The list is quite extensive, to include: slavery, religious intolerance and persecutions, political and racial pogrom, abortion and contraception, separation of church and state, and so on, ad infinitum.

 

[JustGeorge]

I think some of it depends on what your definition of God is.

If you see a God as being a concrete, physical being, I would assume they are subject to mortality, like us humans(and everything categorized as 'living' would be). But, even then, all the Gods that have disappeared into time may or may not have existed, much like most of our ancestors have disappeared into time, unremembered(as most of us will, too). No one will remember us, and it will be as if we never existed.

If you see the different 'Gods' being simply one manifestation of a greater God/universal force/etc, the fact that many have disappeared just means that force is chosing(or maybe it has no choice, who knows)to manifest in other ways.

You really want to qualify your statement with "if"? How about "when". The list is quite extensive, to include: slavery, religious intolerance and persecutions, political and racial pogrom, abortion and contraception, separation of church and state, and so on, ad infinitum.

For all the beliefs that do get acted upon(for either positive or negative), there are myriads of other beliefs that don't get acted on. A lot of it depends on how strong the belief, and how much of its permeated into the culture around it.

I get really exhilarated when I find other people who think Star Wars is boring, but I've yet to start a group that wants to see it banned. The belief is not strong. The support is minimal.

 

[Nakosis]

Which is important, God or belief?

Why?

Belief, without belief, there's be no evidence of a God.

 

[Trailblazer]

You got it completely backwards

What I said is completely logical.

Tell me why you think it is backwards.

 

[Trailblazer]

Belief, without belief, there's be no evidence of a God.

I do not think that is true. If God exists God exists, and evidence has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.
That is because God could exist and not provide ANY evidence of His existence...

However, I do not believe that is the case, because I believe that God has sent Messengers as evidence of His existence.

As an analogy, let's say a solar system exists that has not been discovered by humans. That solar system still exists even though astronomers have not discovered it yet. Likewise, Even of nobody on earth discovered and believed in the Messengers, they would still be evidence for God, if God sent them.

What people believe has nothing to do with reality. For example, President Trump believes that the election was rigged so he actually won and should be President, but that is his fantasy, not reality.

Reality:

1. the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
2. the state or quality of having existence or substance.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=reality+means

 

[Trailblazer]

Some things simply exist because we believe in them.

I disagree. Reality is what it is. Things either exist or they do not exist. Our believing in things does not MAKE them exist.

Reality:

1. the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
2. the state or quality of having existence or substance.

reality means - Google Search

That is also true of beliefs. Jesus rose from the dead is either true or false. If it is true, it is the reality. If it is false, it is a fantasy. Christians believing Jesus rose from the dead does not make it the reality.

I love logic and I got an A+ when I took logic in college. I could talk logic all day long and I could never hold a belief I do not consider logical. That is why I am a Baha'i.