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Featured Goat herders, Scripture, and why Scripture (and the Koran) are toxic, irrational, and dangerous!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by PopeADope, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    And, no doubt, they'll be resurrected.(I'd bet they'll never mock anyone again!)
     
  2. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    No. I don't. I've don't believe I've ever prayed to be heterosexual. I've thought about it and determined that I wouldn't be who I was if I hadn't gone through the lifetime of suffering it has caused me. I don't believe for a minute that God wants me to be gay, and I don't think it's heroic. Everyone has their thorn in their flesh. 2 Corinthians 12:7 It all comes from the environment of sin.

    In the past God only healed people for a reason, and all of those people ended up getting sick and dying again. That's sort of why I asked you about AA. I think AA is a crock of **** that is more harmful than it is good. You don't need a "higher power" you just think you do. I didn't start drinking and doing drugs heavy until after I became a Bible believer. I didn't stop with a higher power I stopped on my own. My darkest period of drinking and homosexual behavior took place after I became a believer. I believed in God but I wasn't sure I wanted what he had to offer. Everlasting life.

    I quite drugs (weed) because I couldn't score any. I quit drinking because I got tired of it. I quit homosexuality because I realized that I couldn't run and hide from God. That even if I were unsure of a desire for everlasting life now, because of sin, I knew that our creator Jehovah God knows more about what is good and what is bad than I, in this state of sin, could possibly imagine, and, with or without me, I wanted that to happen. I wanted the issue of sovereignty that Satan raised to be settled. I wanted Jehovah's name vindicated through Christ Jesus. So I started to try and live accordingly as best I could.

    The Bible was a head knowledge thing for me all the while, I found it fascinating. I really enjoyed learning from it, but in action I was far removed. I knew that and I was okay with it. And then I changed. Gradually, it befriended me, so to speak, in a way that transcended in a very practical way, head knowledge.
     
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  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    No. He wanted us to live forever and fill and subdue the earth. And we will.

    No he didn't. Jehovah is a God of love and justice and there would be no love or justice in that.

    No. He didn't see it until it was too late. He saw the possibility of Adam's sin evident by his warning him.

    No he didn't.

    Eve wasn't stupid, Satan was shrewd. He couldn't appear as another human, could he? There were only two. It wouldn't be shrewd to appear in his original form because that was the form of the one who had told Adam not to eat of the tree. He appeared as the voice of the serpent who had no restrictions from the tree.

    No one is doing what God wants them to do! They can't. That's why he said they can't enter into his day of rest. A period of time he would have allowed for us to mature as the angels had.

    Would that be free will? And he promises to do away with Satan and his demons to allow us to develop a change of heart, a healthy mind, once justice is served and the issue of his sovereignty is settled. Not because he wants us to, but because we want to.
     
    #23 Earthling, Jul 5, 2018
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  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    I don't think people in those days were dumb or stupid. Just ignorant.

    The problem is people today who still think that ignorance is somehow valid and relevant in spite of evidences to the contrary.
     
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  5. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    Really, what one observes is just what one would expect if there were no gods. Conclusion: this god guff is just an ancient con game.
     
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  6. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    You know what I think? I think that people are just as ignorant today, if not more so, because they've created the illusion of knowledge. Where do we go when we want to find a new medicine? We go to the primitive people and try to recreate their knowledge for a profit. It's only been a little over a hundred years that a surgeon would go from the morgue to the operating table without washing his hands. Had he paid attention to the hygiene laws in the Bible he wouldn't have done so.

    We see the ancients as ignorant but there's a reason why we dig through the dirt to get an insight into their world, all the while ignoring the smokey ruins of time we see in our future.
     
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  7. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    God is just a word that means mighty. Anything can be a god. Cave Deus Ex Machina.
     
  8. Thaif

    Thaif Member

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    You know that's a myth, don't you. I really tried to check this out because it sounds like such a strange thing to do but I cannot find any fact behind this at all. Have you a reference? All I could find were posts, blogs and websites citing this as a myth.
     
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  9. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    I think you may be right. I was told that but looked into it just now and it turns out not to have been the case. It isn't in the Bible and it isn't documented anywhere else, so apparently I bought into a Christian myth. Thanks for the correction.
     
  10. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    You clearly don't believe God is all-knowing and omnipotent....Got it!:thumbsup:
     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    That's correct, I don't believe that. The Bible indicates otherwise. God can get to know and do anything he wants within the constraints of his personality, his characteristics, his will, sense of justice, that sort of thing, but that is limited. God, for example, can't lie. Like I could never kill someone. God doesn't know what it is like to sin, to live under the guilt of sin.
     
  12. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Yes, that is true, God can commit genocide, and murder defenseless children and babies (like he did in the Bible) and it is not a sin....Got it!

    Lying is a sin, but killing innocent sinless babies is not...:rolleyes:
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Well, now, wait a minute. Sin is a Hebrew word that means to miss the target. Spear or stone throwers, archers would miss the target and that was called sin. To sin against someone, like God, or your boss, or parents etc. means you miss the mark set by them.

    Who set the mark for God? When he commits genocide or murders defenseless children he isn't sinning. He created us. He gave us all the sentence of death. If he takes some of us prematurely it was for good reason within a specific and very narrow time frame. We are, he has said, like grasshoppers to him.

    Think about that. How much sleep have you lost over the millions of grasshoppers out of trillions that die on our roads and highways? He wants humans as a whole to fulfill his purpose of filling and subduing the Earth, and he wants as many of us to be saved from destruction as possible, but he knows that we don't necessarily see things his way and are capable of destruction. That's what our death is to prevent. And the deluge of Noah's day, and defenseless children. Who, by the way, were young males, probably in their mid to late teens, in the case we discussed earlier with the bear.
     
  14. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    God can break all his commandments. For instance, he doesn't follow the commandment "thou shall not kill".

    He permitted looting, which goes against "thou shall not steal"

    Regarding lying, I believe God does lie.
    1 Kings 22:22
    "'How will you do this?' the LORD asked. "And the spirit replied, 'I will go out and inspire all of Ahab's prophets to speak lies.' "'You will succeed,' said the LORD. 'Go ahead and do it.'

    Scripture says "delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart".

    "Those who believe in me will do the works i do and greater works."

    "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened."

    "Ask anything of the Father in my name, and it shall be done for you."

    "Faith of a mustard seed shall move mountains."

    "Those who believe in me will pick up venemous serpents and drink poison, and it will not harm them."

    I would consider all those to clearly, obviously be lies.

    God says, "you shall not make a graven image", then later commands graven images to be made.

    So, all of this is evidence that God breaks his own rules! ;)
     
  15. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    That's real good, man! What a poet!
     
  16. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    That was a commandment to us, from the creator of life. Life (in the Bible blood, the soul) belongs to God, not us. So he has told us that we shouldn't take the life of another. There are exceptions, which he has allowed. Animals for food, since Noah saved all animals, and in specific cases of war with the Nation of Israel. They were not to act in war without his permission.

    In the case of approved of war, often limited to non religious items, or those golden melted?

    Excellent example of using the scriptures, Pope!! Good Job! When I first came across this in my study that's exactly what I thought. I was wrong, though.

    [edit I forgot to add this part of my response.

    According to the Bible a lie is not only a verbal expression but also may be action designed to deceive a person who is entitled to know the truth. Living a lie, for example, pretending to be faithful when intentionally carrying out that which is gross sin is, though unspoken, nevertheless a lie.

    One is not obligated to tell the truth if the person receiving the information is not entitled to it. (Matthew 7:6; Matthew 21:23-27) The difference being deceiving for personal gain or to avoid due punishment as opposed to misleading in order to avoid unjust harm or allowing someone who wishes to believe a lie to continue doing so. (Genesis 12:10-19; Genesis 20; Genesis 26:1-10 / 2 Kings 6:11-23)

    This is what the apostle Paul called "operation of error." It is a case of allowing those who prefer to believe in a falsehood to continue to do so. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) Micaiah had foretold disaster but the prophets of king Ahab didn't want to hear the truth, he wanted victory. It should be recognized that Micaiah did foretell the truth, but Ahab chose not to listen.

    It is also important to note that those who tell a lie and repent are forgiven. The case of Peter, for example, having denied Christ 3 times, repented and was forgiven. But those who carry on a lie without repentance are, of course, not forgiven. (Matthew 26:69-75)]

    If you delight in Jehovah your heart will delight in what is right. You've learned this on your own. You've learned that drugs and alcohol really don't make you happy. What is right is already built within you. We were all given it as we were created in his image.

    And they have. He began the work.

    So long as it is within his will and purpose which is for us to reach our true potential. As opposed to the potential illusion we create.

    Since faith isn't an object that you can compare in size to a mustard seed this statement is metaphorical. A practical example of how it is true is money. In America our currency is currently backed by debt, as opposed to gold as it was in the past. As long as we have faith in the federal reserve notes and plastic credit cards and the dollar doesn't crash it can move mountains literally and figuratively. But if we loose faith in it and it crashes all the resources stay the same but we starve.

    This is a spurious scripture, it didn't appear in earlier manuscripts, so it was added on later. A good reference study Bible will indicate this.


    But you say that in ignorance.

    Where exactly does he do this in scripture? A graven image is something made to worship.
     
    #36 Earthling, Jul 5, 2018
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    My thought is your word ==> @PopeADope: Follow thy heart! Follow thy conscience! Ask God to guide you!

    Takes guts to drop all, and trust our conscience. More easy to stick to the Bible and the Church.
    But trusting God to guide me from within I enjoy so much more.
     
    #37 stvdv, Jul 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Goat herders

    What is wrong with the goat herders, please?
    Regards
     
  19. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Nothing!

    I said that in the OP.

    Some people say it like its a bad thing. That's what I was asking.
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Thanks and regards
     
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