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Goals and Purposes in creation

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure

Does humanity exhibit goals and purposes? or Are humans mindlessly made with every function of a human being is arbitrary and signifying nothing?

How do you justify your position?

Some very reasonable people consider the idea that meaning and purpose is apart of the universe. That somehow life is special.

I agree with the argument in the video.

For me it is apparent that life,and in particular, humanity exhibits goals and purposes in their form and function.

The argument puts forth that God, or magic isn't an explanation, and I agree with that as well.

But is there a life principle to existence?
 

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Then the question becomes how did they do it?

But Gods or no gods, does creation exhibit goals and purposes?
I have no clue how. Im not a god. Big bang other methods it don't matter we here now. As for purpose well again not a god. But if they were bored well entertainment is a purpose.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I have no clue how. Im not a god. Big bang other methods it don't matter we here now. As for purpose well again not a god. But if they were bored well entertainment is a purpose.
That sounds kind of like a character in Invisible Monsters, and according to him, for that reason we must never, ever be boring.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
It didn't really get addressed in the video but I wonder about Davies' thoughts on non-dual (Advaita) philosophy in which Consciousness/God/Brahman is the base of reality and the universe is then a play/drama of God/Brahman in which God/Brahman identifies with finite objects in Act I and then returns Himself to Himself in Oneness in Act II.

The purpose is then the experiencing of a creative cosmic play.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For me it is apparent that life,and in particular, humanity exhibits goals and purposes in their form and function.

Goals and purpose both imply consciousness and intent. If you're asking if the universe is conscious and is striving to achieve some intended goal, we have no answer for that. Maybe. How could we know?

But sure, it's possible that some conscious agent has a purpose for us. It is also possible that the universe is conscious, but not of us, in which case it couldn't be said to have any purpose for us. Or, the universe is conscious, but indifferent to us, meaning it still has no goals or purpose for us.

But, if the universe is unconsciously responding to physical law as it expands, generates new stars and natural satellites, organizes itself first into life and then mind, which is really all we know is happening, then no, nothing has a purpose to the universe, and purpose doesn't begin to exist until consciousness does, and that consciousness experiences a feeling of purpose.

Interestingly, if there is some conscious agent with a purpose for me, it's not my purpose now, and possibly never will be. That's what I think of when some theists tell us that their sense of purpose comes from their relationship with God and their hope for a blissful afterlife. This is sometimes stated as life having no purpose for the believer absent that belief, as if life has no meaning unless it is a staging ground for something else, a time of eternal praising.

What's strange to me is that that is not an existence with meaning or purpose for me. That would be somebody else's purpose. Mine might be to get away and pursue my own goals.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
  • I don't think there is an over arching grande purpose for all of life. The goals and purposes I'm referring to are in the forms, functions, and capabilities of life; human life in particular.
  • It's not that I'm against grande purposes, but that I don't argue or see any in existence. Perhaps a high level of morality, and the ability to explore and learn might be those grande purposes.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It seems to me that the only possible answer is, "if God (or the universe) has a purpose to the evolution of life as it is today, then unless God (or the universe) tells us what that purpose is, we will never know."

Then think about that from our perspective: by way of analogy, try explaining to your cat why you purchased a pet. How could it possibly understand your motives? Then how do you suppose you could understand the motives of God (or the universe)?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I’ll choose to be an anomaly and not merge or become one with God/Brahman.
That’s actually not a possibility even though your ego at this time does not like that. You exist and are conscious only because you have the spark of the source God/Brahman animating you.

It’s a good thing ultimately.
 

Alienistic

Anti-conformity
That’s actually not a possibility even though your ego at this time does not like that.

My ego will never merge with anything that is responsible for all of the monstrosities, all of the rotten and vile things being done to mankind to their ignorance so some ridiculous Brahman can enjoy a robotic play and things like this:
“The Vedanta doctrine of Karma is a doctrine of absolute, automatic justice. The circumstances of our lives, our pains and our pleasures are all the results of our past actions in this and countless previous existences, from a beginningless time. Viewed from a relative standpoint, Maya is quite pitiless. We get exactly what we earn, no more, no less. If we cry out against some apparent injustice, it is only because the act that brought it upon us is buried deep in the past, out of reach of our memory. To be born a beggar, a king, an athlete or a helpless cripple is simply the composite consequence of the deeds of other lives. We have no one to thank but ourselves.“

Anyone sane would not like this and see the madness in this.

And to the contrary, one can certainly learn to become their own responsible and accountable being after realizing that they are a victim.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
My ego will never merge with anything that is responsible for all of the monstrosities, all of the rotten and vile things being done to mankind to their ignorance so some ridiculous Brahman can enjoy a robotic play and things like this:
“The Vedanta doctrine of Karma is a doctrine of absolute, automatic justice. The circumstances of our lives, our pains and our pleasures are all the results of our past actions in this and countless previous existences, from a beginningless time. Viewed from a relative standpoint, Maya is quite pitiless. We get exactly what we earn, no more, no less. If we cry out against some apparent injustice, it is only because the act that brought it upon us is buried deep in the past, out of reach of our memory. To be born a beggar, a king, an athlete or a helpless cripple is simply the composite consequence of the deeds of other lives. We have no one to thank but ourselves.“

Anyone sane would not like this and see the madness in this.

And to the contrary, one can certainly learn to become their own responsible and accountable being after realizing that they are a victim.
Not sure where you got those descriptions of karma and Maya from but that is another discussion. I was answering the OP's question on the nature of the purpose of creation in my Advaita philosophy.

In Advaita philosophy only Consciousness/God/Brahman is real. Creation/Maya is an illusion. Advaita is a non-dual (God/Brahman and creation are not-two) philosophy. The response you just gave is applicable only to a dualistic philosophy in which you and God/Brahman are two separate things and so you can remain separate.

Another way of looking at merging in God/Brahman is actually realization (Self-Realization) that in fact the separation all the time was only an illusion of perspective.
 
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