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Global Warming?

rrobs

Well-Known Member
No I am not in a dream state like yourself believing in fantasy. Humans are out of balance in our world. Uncontrolled population growth, increasing temperature causing to rapid changes in the environment for adaptation, excessive waste, destruction of biodiversity, destruction of the life we depend on. If you cannot see what this equates to than you never understood science at all. Ignorance to what is happening is equating to humans suicide.
I didn't think you were in a dream state. Even if I did, I wouldn't use it as an argument. Making statements about a debate opponent's state of mind is not good debate. I prefer sticking to the topic which in this case has nothing to do with me or my state of mind.

How about waiting a few hundred years to see if things don't balance out? That is something science can't do in the present.

To say I don't understand science based solely on the "evidence" that I don't agree with GW is very poor science indeed. There is no known correlation whatsoever between the two ideas. I do know enough about science to know that they like correlations. Pretty essential, really.
 
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rrobs

Well-Known Member
No but you need to rethink your attitude. Ignorance is when someone ignores what is happening for something they want to believe. Such simplistic thinking is unfortunately too common for those who take the bible as absolute fact. Do you want to rethink your attitude towards climate change. You are intelligent so why do you deny the reality?
The reality that GW is going to kill all humans? Scientist can now predict the future with 100% accuracy when it comes to climate? Climate is anything but simplistic.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
when I was soooooo much younger.....
Christmas included snow
lots of it

not so much anymore
the past 50yrs has seen a lot of change
You are right about that. I remember more snow also, but good science would demand more than 50 years of data. Then on the other hand, about 10 years ago we had a record snow fall in the SoCal mountains. We were stuck for 6 days.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
That is not an answer to the question.

Shall we conclude from this that you don't know of such scientists?
No. It just means even if I showed them to you, you wouldn't believe.
Besides, if you were sincerely interested in honest research you could do it yourself. You don't need me to show you science that debunks the idea that GW will kill all humans. I know you are resourceful enough to find the information on your own.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Your comment literally implied that you don't care about the hardship future generations will have to face because of how we do things today, and you defend that with "as long as I can have a smile on my face and a worry free life".
What was the context of my statement about smiling?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Although it is warming, I'm not sure if we can predict disaster as much as some folks want to believe. In some cases, (like here) the warming means more agricultural diversity, and more food. With larger surface area of water, there is more rain. Rising water levels for high population cities is a concern, but the Netherlands solved that problem centuries ago. I don't know. Wait and see.
It's more complex than this, and we can't build dykes around whole continents.

Q: How will today's normal sea life continue if "acidification" and warming removes the base of the food chain? How will it continue without the shorwline mangrove nurseries so many marine creatures depend on? You have to look beyond your own region.

Global warming ramifies into multifarious effects throughout the biosphere -- including your own backyard. What will happen to your Canadian forests if this nutrient poor region isn't fertilized by yearly salmon runs?; salmon that depend on fish that depend on zooplankton and phytoplankton that warming and acidification would kill? For that matter, consider the atmospheric changes if the tropical forest belt and pelagic phytoplankton -- "lungs of the planet" -- are disrupted. "More food" won't help you if you can't breathe.

There's also the politics to consider. The billions of people inhabiting the tropics are not going to calmly sit down and die when (as) their regions become uninhabitable. Look at the geopolitical effects of the Arab Spring -- initiated by a regional drought. All of Europe is moving to the Right, putting up fences and becoming more militant -- because of a small drought in the middle East.

The biosphere is a World Wide, interactive, Web; a Rube Goldberg. A small change anywhere can ramify into big changes everywhere.
People don't do rapid change well. More specialized life forms do still worse.
There's a reason people are talking about the Sixth Extinction.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The reality that GW is going to kill all humans? Scientist can now predict the future with 100% accuracy when it comes to climate? Climate is anything but simplistic.
When it comes to the Big Picture, climate science is pretty well decided. The evidence is overwhelming and accumulating.
Remember, this is climate, nor weather.
Science seeks to identify causes, not correlations. Pretty basic, really.
Science looks for both. Despite the simplistic maxim, correlation often is indicative of causation, which is why it's worth consideration.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Remember the ozone layer? The science was crystal clear that it was going away and we'd all die. Turns out 2019 showed the smallest hole in recorded history.
No the popular media was the source sensationalizing it. Sensation sells advertising. Science did point out the possible consequences, should it be allowed to continue. It also suggested remedies. Luckily, some of these were applied in time.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Remember the ozone layer? The science was crystal clear that it was going away and we'd all die. Turns out 2019 showed the smallest hole in recorded history.
That's because the Montreal treaty changed it. There weren't as much climate change deniers in 1989 so the treaty could be successful. Today even politicians are receptive to conspiracy theories.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
No bias there. Just write 'em all off as not being real experts. Case closed.
Yep. And why is that possible? Because scientists have a working epistemology. When they have discussed a topic to the end they agree on a consensus and those who still haven't got the memo are asked to leave the conference.
When theologians have discussed a topic they usually split into two denominations, each claiming they have the truth.
That's why scientists get things done and theologians don't.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
No. It just means even if I showed them to you, you wouldn't believe.

You won't know until you actually provide it.
But my guess is that you won't provide those names, because you know they are either charlatans or ultimately compromised due to being funded by the oil industry (directly or indirectly) and that with a specific goal in mind, which is undermining the actual science for the purpose of spreading misinformation.

You can prove me wrong if you want. But you won't, because you can't... right?

[qutoe]
Besides, if you were sincerely interested in honest research you could do it yourself.[/quote]

I already did.


You don't need me to show you science that debunks the idea that GW will kill all humans. I know you are resourceful enough to find the information on your own.

The valid information I find is that the current GW is unnatural and caused by greenhouse gas emmisions by human civilisation.

As this graph clearly demonstrates:

upload_2020-8-13_19-24-36.png


That extreme rise in the level of the greenhouse gas CO2, starts in the late 19th century / early 20th century an only rises faster as the decades and years flow by.

This is 100% related to human activity.

You have your head in the sand as it comes to these facts.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Remember the ozone layer? The science was crystal clear that it was going away and we'd all die. Turns out 2019 showed the smallest hole in recorded history.

1. the topic is climate change, not the ozon layer

2. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...is-the-smallest-on-record-since-its-discovery

Thirty-two years ago, the international community signed the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. This agreement regulated the consumption and production of ozone-depleting compounds. Atmospheric levels of man-made ozone depleting substances increased up to the year 2000. Since then, they have slowly declined but remain high enough to produce significant ozone loss. The ozone hole over Antarctica is expected to gradually become less severe as chlorofluorocarbons— banned chlorine-containing synthetic compounds that were once frequently used as coolants—continue to decline. Scientists expect the Antarctic ozone to recover back to the 1980 level around 2070.

In the case of the ozon hole, the world DID take action by banning ozone depleting substances to be used in all kinds of products. As a result, the situation improves as such substances become less and less frequent.


The same would happen with GW if the world would follow science's reccomendations concerning greenhouse gasses

The problem is that there is FAR TOO MUCH money flow involved in the oil business. They literally have billions available to support their science denying / misinformation / propaganda campaign.



I note you conveniently didn't quote the graph nore the facts about the greenhouse gas and what the effects are if they are drastically increased in the atmosphere.

Instead, you just quote one sentence and quickly try and change the subject to something else, which is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Neither did you respond to the post where I informed you of the fact that Exxon KNEW about climate change / global warming as an inevitable effect of their industry as far back as 1977. It was even discussed at the highest level within the company and perceived as a threat to their business. It's also known that they have funded countless attempts at undermining the science, eventhough they knew for a fact that the science is solid - as they themselves actually discovered through their own research.


Very telling.
Very telling indeed.
 
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Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
The reality that GW is going to kill all humans? Scientist can now predict the future with 100% accuracy when it comes to climate? Climate is anything but simplistic.
It is not just climate but climate is the current indicator. Climate change is intimately tied into population growth, loss of productive land, Toxic changes to the environment, and other factors but yes if temperature continues to increase we may not be able to adapt adequately nor the life we depend on. Nothing is 100% accurate but ignoring what can happen is intentional ignorance.
 
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