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Global warming 2019

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What can you do about this?
N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
The carbon to melt all ice on earth is ALREADY IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

But your garden variety Greenie doesn't know that, or doesn't see that
as relevant as his or her agenda to change the world.
I recall the Global Freeze Campaign ca 1978 spoke of Capitalism,
Corporatism and greed being responsible for the coming ice age.
As it is - our global warming today might have stalled the impending
and overdue ice age - saving the lives of billions.

Data.GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP v4)

Climate model performance: a little update
A graph produced by Gavin Schmidt, who runs NASA's GISS institute. In a tweet today, Gavin gave an update of the graph based on 10 months of 2019,.

EJcDBA1X0AIC-1H
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Doesn't matter. Global Freezing was a Cause.
Causes show our righteousness and the inherent evil of any
one who disagrees.
So we had the Nuclear Winter Campaign
And the Acid Rain campaign
And the PCB campaign.
And the anti-nuclear campaign

This is why many people are skeptical of Global Warming.
You can't shove "facts" to skeptics because the people
doing the shoveling cared little for facts when the earth
was about to freeze over.

See actual data graphed in previous post.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What can you do about this?
N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
The carbon to melt all ice on earth is ALREADY IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

But your garden variety Greenie doesn't know that, or doesn't see that
as relevant as his or her agenda to change the world.
I recall the Global Freeze Campaign ca 1978 spoke of Capitalism,
Corporatism and greed being responsible for the coming ice age.
As it is - our global warming today might have stalled the impending
and overdue ice age - saving the lives of billions.
The first step in fighting AGW is to stop putting excessive carbon in the air. A do nothing attitude would result in a global catastrophe worse than if we only cut back on the excess.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
See actual data graphed in previous post.

The big freeze happened about the time the Germans were at the outskirts of Moscow.
and continued through to the late 1970's.
Not sure how it was getting colder instead of warmer.

but yeah, facts.
I an Australian. Might not sound strange to a foreigner but we own a few orphan kangaroos.
(but it does to Aussies)
so my partner said to me this morning "I see you nearly ate all the rock melon last night."
"No, Kangy did."
"Oh sure. The roo got the rock melon out of the fridge and ate it?"
"Here's THE FACTS. I came out to the kitchen and here is the kangaroo eating the rock melon."

Yes, facts. Truth be told I gave melon rind to the kangaroo, but my point is this - in any issue
facts are not necessarily the truth. By crafting the facts, and not telling any non-facts, I crafted
a complete lie.

And that's how greenies shut down America's nuclear power industry and its GM technology.
I am fine with Global Warming. Believed it in the 1960's. But that's not the point - its the politics
I am opposed to.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
The first step in fighting AGW is to stop putting excessive carbon in the air. A do nothing attitude would result in a global catastrophe worse than if we only cut back on the excess.

So we spend TRILLIONS, and turn off the lights, and still nothing will happen.
Of course, the "developing nations" will more than make up for what we stop
emitting. And even if they didn't, the ice will all be gone.

We need two things
1 - new base load power (ie fusion) or clean up coal.
2 - a way of actively removing CO2 now.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So we spend TRILLIONS, and turn off the lights, and still nothing will happen.
Of course, the "developing nations" will more than make up for what we stop
emitting. And even if they didn't, the ice will all be gone.

We need two things
1 - new base load power (ie fusion) or clean up coal.
2 - a way of actively removing CO2 now.
Coal cannot be cleaned up. So called "clean coal" relies on pumping carbon dioxide underground. That is rather expensive energy wise and can only be done in limited locales. The mining process for coal alone makes it one of the dirtiest fuels out there. And I do agree that nucleear should be a huge part of the process. It is probably the cleanest fuel out there.

Removing CO2 has to be passive and almost certainly biological. Which means not very fast. Trying to physically remove it quickly runs afoul of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Doesn't matter. Global Freezing was a Cause.
Causes show our righteousness and the inherent evil of any
one who disagrees.
So we had the Nuclear Winter Campaign
And the Acid Rain campaign
And the PCB campaign.
And the anti-nuclear campaign

This is why many people are skeptical of Global Warming.
You can't shove "facts" to skeptics because the people
doing the shoveling cared little for facts when the earth
was about to freeze over.

The cold periods are not a cause. They are a result of the normal fluctuations of Global climate and have faded with the long term Global Warming trend, as shown in the evidence and the graphs.

The CO2 in coal cannot be cleaned up.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The cold periods are not a cause. They are a result of the normal fluctuations of Global climate and have faded with the long term Global Warming trend, as shown in the evidence and the graphs.

The CO2 in coal cannot be cleaned up.
So called "clean coal" relies on capturing the CO2 and pumping it back underground. There are not many places that this can be done in,the plants are very expensive and pumping the CO2back underground is not cheap either. Overall quite the Rube Goldberg approach to a problem that has better solutions.

EDIT: And that.does not even address the fact that coal is the dirtiest fuel to harvest. And the most dangerous as well. A fuel that should have been phased out fifty years ago.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
The cold periods are not a cause. They are a result of the normal fluctuations of Global climate and have faded with the long term Global Warming trend, as shown in the evidence and the graphs.

The CO2 in coal cannot be cleaned up.

ANYTHING can be a cause.
Didn't Greenpeace try to ban the global use of PCB's ?
In Australia the cause was to ban plastic cups at McDonalds.
...then ban the paper ones.

Causes are as much about virtue signaling, self hating and cultural Marxism
is they are about the cause itself (think transgender issues now)
Lenin told his followers to establish themselves politically by adopting and
controlling causes.
In Australia this is how the Trotskyites took control of the anti-nuclear cause.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
So called "clean coal" relies on capturing the CO2 and pumping it back underground. There are not many places that this can be done in,the plants are very expensive and pumping the CO2back underground is not cheap either. Overall quite the Rube Goldberg approach to a problem that has better solutions.

EDIT: And that.does not even address the fact that coal is the dirtiest fuel to harvest. And the most dangerous as well. A fuel that should have been phased out fifty years ago.

Your confusing theclaim of clean coal and what can be done with the CO2. Sure, we can pump CO2 back in the ground, but no getting the world to pump CO2 in the ground is not realistic, considering the other problems with coal you mentioned.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ANYTHING can be a cause.
Didn't Greenpeace try to ban the global use of PCB's ?
In Australia the cause was to ban plastic cups at McDonalds.
...then ban the paper ones.

Causes are as much about virtue signaling, self hating and cultural Marxism
is they are about the cause itself (think transgender issues now)
Lenin told his followers to establish themselves politically by adopting and
controlling causes.
In Australia this is how the Trotskyites took control of the anti-nuclear cause.
The fact that certain groups may abuse a science does not make that science false. In fact adopting new science early may be a way for those groups to gain credibility. By sticking to the old and refuted you may be indirectly aiding the "Trotskyites.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Your confusing theclaim of clean coal and what can be done with the CO2. Sure, we can pump CO2 back in the ground, but no getting the world to pump CO2 in the ground is not realistic, considering the other problems with coal you mentioned.
That was my point if you read my post. I wrote what clean coal supposedly was and then pointed out that pumping CO2 back into the ground was very expensive and could only be done in limited regions.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
No, anything cannot be a cause. Your bouncing around like a Silly Putty Yo-Yo. I am still waiting for you to address the evidence cited concerning Global Warming.

Still waiting . . .

I could make an issue out of toothpaste. And if people were
starved for an issue they could take to the streets to rant about
chemicals, big pharma and even, if they liked, invent a whole
new paradigm - organic mouths.
I have no issue with Global Warming. I have an issue with the
people who want to shut down debate about it.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I could make an issue out of toothpaste. And if people were
starved for an issue they could take to the streets to rant about
chemicals, big pharma and even, if they liked, invent a whole
new paradigm - organic mouths.
I have no issue with Global Warming. I have an issue with the
people who want to shut down debate about it.

I do not see the shut down on debate. I and many others from the scientific perspective are willing listen to any rathal argument, and ound science concerning Global Warming alone without all the many topic noise.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I do not see the shut down on debate. I and many others from the scientific perspective are willing listen to any rathal argument, and ound science concerning Global Warming alone without all the many topic noise.

In the universities and media they refer to a class of people
known as "Climate Change Denialists." It's on par with
holocaust denial, and often treated the same.
Bjorn Lomborg knows all about this - he accepts climate
change but feels money ought to be directed towards
mitigating its effects rather than thinking you can fight it.
For this travesty he can't even lecture on it without being
thrown out of auditoriums.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
In the universities and media they refer to a class of people
known as "Climate Change Denialists." It's on par with
holocaust denial, and often treated the same.
Bjorn Lomborg knows all about this - he accepts climate
change but feels money ought to be directed towards
mitigating its effects rather than thinking you can fight it.
For this travesty he can't even lecture on it without being
thrown out of auditoriums.

It may surprise you, but I agree with Bjorn Lomborg. I am a geologist with a strong back ground in climatology, and geochemistry. Many of the goals to reduce carbon emissions and pollution are important for the future, but no, by the math they cannot stop Global Warming. Yes, significant efforts needed to be devoted to mitigating the effects. The elephant in the room is what to with coastal cities and communities. Some islands are in the process of being abandoned, because of rising sea levels.
 
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