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Gina Carano discussing Nazis, what am I missing here?

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by icehorse, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem is the calling out of government in the analogy, not because (as others have said) it is perhaps false, but because considering the entire analogy, it seems to partially imply the idea that the U.S. government may be trying to get people to hate one another over their political views - so that we might start persecuting those of particular political views without consequence or as part of "normalcy."

    And, her being of the "conservative" persuasion apparently (I gathered this from the posts in this topic, and then looked it up to verify, because honestly I couldn't have cared before this moment), it seems she may be trying to say that conservatism is the political set of views being persecuted. This is just blowing things out of the water ridiculously given recent events and the reason for there being backlash against particularly staunch conservatives. Because theirs are the views that led to some of our citizens trying to haphazardly overthrow the government.

    She might be talking about any political views, I suppose... but I doubt it.
     
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  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Whilst I can certainly understand the Holocaust or the Nazi treatment of Jews in general as being the go to example of recognising prejudice in ourselves. It’s a little tacky to compare your feelings being hurt to one of the most horrific travesties in recent history.

    I get that the current American political climate is quite dramatic, but casually using the Holocaust like this. I don’t know, it creates in me a gut reaction of, “wow, tacky much?”

    But that’s just my perception. It seems there is a lot more under the surface. As pointed out by the poster just above me. But as I’m not American such context is lost on me.
     
    #22 SomeRandom, Feb 11, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  3. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, I don't know, but I guess if they let stuff like this go, then the next thing you know, people might start comparing US politicians to Hitler. Oh wait...
     
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  4. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Good question... it certainly does seem like thought control to fire someone for this statement.
     
  5. Inquire of God

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    The only bad thing I can see here is that Lucasfilm is getting away with firing her. They should have to move to another country or be shut down for such nonsensical retaliation. But nothing will be done because the constitution is now considered evil.
     
  6. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    You're almost certainly correct. But the tweet - by itself - is ambiguous. If spoken by a left-leaning person, it could well have been referring to the aggressors on Jan 6.

    While I think your assessment of Carano's intentions is correct, and if so, I disagree with her, this feels like an assault on free speech.
     
    #26 icehorse, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  7. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Except perhaps she has not been fired?

    "Gina Carano is not currently employed by Lucasfilm and there are no plans for her to be in the future." - Lucasfilm.
     
  8. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    No, it really isn't. The tweet concludes "How is that (i.e the treatment of Jewish people in Nazi Germany) any different to hating people because of their political views?"

    It is an explicit attempt to draw a comparison between her treatment as a Conservative and the suffering of Jews under Nazi Germany.

    If you can find anybody on the left who compares January 6th to the holocaust, I will call them stupid too.

    Her speech isn't being curtailed. The company she worked for on a particular show terminated her contract because she made a profoundly stupid statement that trivialized the holocaust, and that is a bad look for the company (especially a company like Disney who have a history with antisemitism). This kind of thing is fairly normal.
     
  9. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    Isn't it the case that you can make this claim ONLY if you have knowledge outside of the tweet itself?

    Sometimes slippery slope arguments are useful.

    The twitasphere is calling for curtailment. I'm just trying to point out how dangerous calls to limit speech are, even what we might all agree is wrong-headed speech.
     
  10. Inquire of God

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    Okay, maybe there is a difference, or maybe they are just trying to pose it in a way that gets them kudos from the whoevers.
     
  11. Aštra’el

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    Pedro Pascal he/him, main star of “The Mandalorian”, tweeted on June 20, 2018:

    90C21DEE-2413-4EA1-9C22-603C39A75848.jpeg
     
  12. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    At least that’s a closer comparison than having your feelings hurt.

    As an aside I encountered a commentator allegedly from Germany. Apparently miss Gina’s comments count as Holocaust denial under their law.
    If any RFer from Germany would weigh in on that, I would be grateful. I’ve no doubt their law would be extremely strict about that kind of thing. But I couldn’t verify one way or the other.
     
  13. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    Yes. And?

    It's not a slippery slope argument. It makes a direct comparison between the two.

    And I'm sure there are many not calling for one. Also, Twitter can ban whoever they want, too.

    You haven't really done that, though. You've yet to point out any significant, negative consequence to society for this. Also, freedom of speech does not mean freedom to use whatever private platform you want. Nor does it protect you from the consequences of speech which can reasonably be considered harmful to the representation of your employers.
     
    #33 ImmortalFlame, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  14. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    I'm also not a fan of this comparison, though I would argue that the comparison is nowhere near as harmful.
     
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  15. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    I'm of the opinion that at this point. major social media platforms have become "the commons". The proverbial street corner from which anyone can exercise their right to speech (and free listening BTW). So in general I agree that there is no guarantee of a platform, but I think Big SM is an exception to that.

    As for negative consequences, I'm not sure I'm understanding you here. Are you saying that I need to demonstrate bad consequences stemming from censorship?
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    She said republicans are treated in comparable ways to jews in nazi germany.

    This is beyond ridiculous and completely trivializes what really went on in Nazi Germany. It also demonizes her political opponents as if they were nazi's.
     
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  17. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    For good reason.
     
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    A question I have here is... how was she fired?

    The Mandalorian, the show in question, is already done. I don't know if new seasons were planned, but it's not like they were filming at the moment.
     
  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    The demonization of political opponents as Nazis (or sometimes as Communists, depending on who's doing the demonizing) is a common trope in US politics. I never really liked this tactic myself, regardless of which side does it. A lot of the problem also stems from the fact that very few Americans have a strong grasp of history, making it all the more easy for people to say things like this.

    A lot of people just say dumb, ignorant things. They may not necessarily mean anything by it, though. That's where it gets just as ridiculous, when all of society makes a huge deal over some dumb thing that someone says. That reaction seems to do more harm than good. Would it be so bad to just ignore it and let it go? Is there some insidious agenda at work? Is Carano evil and possibly a Nazi herself for saying such a thing?
     
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Nobody cares if some no-name, unknown redneck spouts things 100x worse.

    The problem occurs when people of fame do it on a platform where they reach millions of people.
    Sure, perhaps she is just an uneducated dumb woman who doesn't know better.

    That doesn't change the fact that she is a famous person with a reach of millions on a public platform like social media.
    The fact is that people of fame with a big following have a big responsibility in terms of being role-models. And what they say (or don't say) reflects back on the circles they move in.

    Famous people with a great following on the internet, have big power. And with power comes responsibility. Maybe she is dumb and ignorant. To me, that's not an excuse.
    Being a person of fame with a voice that reaches millions, she has a responsibility to educate herself and to be careful what she does and doesn't say on such a platform.

    Sure, she is free to say whatever she wants (within certain boundaries because free speech is off course not absolute).
    Others are also free to judge her for it. And she must realize that as a public figure, what she does and doesn't say on social media can and WILL have consequences and potential backlash.

    If you are famous and reach millions with your platform, then be careful what you post. When in doubt, best to simply not post anything at all.

    It comes with the job. It's the price you pay for being famous and gathering "followers" on a platform like twitter.

    If she can't handle that, then she should either quit social media or quit being famous.
    Nobody is going to care about her statements when she works at McDonalds flipping burgers with 23 followers on her twitter account.
     
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