"Giants" of the faith

[LightofTruth]

Interestingly, many "orthodox" Christians refer to men as being "giants" of the faith or Church fathers. They look to theses men as being champions of what is now called "orthodox" Trinitarianism.

However, anyone who studies the Scriptures would know that the champion of faith is Abraham because the Scripture says we need the faith of Abraham not the faith of Augustine or any so-called "giant".

 

[PureX]

Interestingly, many "orthodox" Christians refer to men as being "giants" of the faith or Church fathers. They look to theses men as being champions of what is now called "orthodox" Trinitarianism.

However, anyone who studies the Scriptures would know that the champion of faith is Abraham because the Scripture says we need the faith of Abraham not the faith of Augustine or any so-called "giant".

I'm not sure what your point is, here.

I think it's rarely possible for any of us to know how faithful, or faithless, any others of us really are. Those stories about "giants of faith" are really just that: stories. They are intended to represent to us what faith looks like, and how it helps us to live in a world that we do not control.

 

[LightofTruth]

I'm not sure what your point is, here.

I think it's rarely possible for any of us to know how faithful, or faithless, any others of us really are. Those stories about "giants of faith" are really just that: stories. They are intended to represent to us what faith looks like, and how it helps us to live in a world that we do not control.

I don't need to go outside of Scripture to know what faith looks like. Read Hebrews chapter 11.

 

[PureX]

I don't need to go outside of Scripture to know what faith looks like. Read Hebrews chapter 11.

The only faith that matters is my own. Everyone else's is just the "stories" I hear. Including those in the holy books.

 

[Rival]

I don't need to go outside of Scripture to know what faith looks like. Read Hebrews chapter 11.

Abraham had no Scripture.

 

[metis]

Interestingly, many "orthodox" Christians refer to men as being "giants" of the faith or Church fathers. They look to theses men as being champions of what is now called "orthodox" Trinitarianism.

However, anyone who studies the Scriptures would know that the champion of faith is Abraham because the Scripture says we need the faith of Abraham not the faith of Augustine or any so-called "giant".

There are many "giants" in Christian history, and we also need to remember that no one is perfect, including Abraham.

BTW, just a reminder that Abraham was not a Christian.

 

[leov]

Abraham had no Scripture.

Abraham is archetype of Israel - One Who Sees God (Spirit World) while being introspective.

 

[Rival]

Abraham is archetype of Israel - One Who Sees God (Spirit World) while being introspective.

But he was in our faith a real person. He had no scripture; nor had Enoch or Noach and both are described as righteous. They evidently didn't need scripture to teach them faith.

 

[metis]

But he was a real person. He had no scripture; nor had Enoch or Noach and both are described as righteous. They evidently didn't need scripture to teach them faith.

I'm far from sure as to whether he was a real person, but in the final analysis it really doesn't matter as "the message" came through later sources as recorded in Torah and beyond.

 

[metis]

Holy Smokes, often there is Fire when there's Smoke.

 

[leov]

But he was a real person. He had no scripture; nor had Enoch or Noach and both are described as righteous. They evidently didn't need scripture to teach them faith.

They did not need Scripture: they had direct communications.

 

[exchemist]

I'm not sure what your point is, here.

I think it's rarely possible for any of us to know how faithful, or faithless, any others of us really are. Those stories about "giants of faith" are really just that: stories. They are intended to represent to us what faith looks like, and how it helps us to live in a world that we do not control.

I'm not really familiar with the term "giants of the faith". But from the description they sound a bit like what a lot of us (slightly loosely) call "saints".

 

[Rival]

They did not need Scripture: they had direct communications.

Abraham was only in direct communication with G-d in his old age. We only meet Abraham at the tail end of his life. Abraham didn't just start becoming a zealous monotheist after years and years of idolatry. This was also the case with Noach.

 

[Bob Jones]

Do you believe such stories?

 

[leov]

Abraham was only in direct communication with G-d in his old age. We only meet Abraham at the tail end of his life. Abraham didn't just start becoming a zealous monotheist after years and years of idolatry. This was also the case with Noach.

Spirit world is huge and limitless, Abraham was clairvoyant , no doubt he saw different spiritual entities during his life. G-d of Abraham set up cultivating a nation of Those Who See G-d out of Abraham.

 

[Rival]

Spirit world is huge and limitless, Abraham was clairvoyant , no doubt he saw different spiritual entities during his life. G-d of Abraham set up cultivating a nation of Those Who See G-d out of Abraham.

This is a bizarre and over-complicated response. Is it so hard to accept that Abraham was a monotheist of great faith through personal realisation? As was Noach? Sola Scriptura is a late Christian doctrine that has permeated people's minds so much so that even people who lived before scripture aren't immune now, apparently. What of Job? Job is the oldest book in the Tanakh and Job was not a Jew; he had no Scripture.

 

[leov]

This is a bizarre and over-complicated response. Is it so hard to accept that Abraham was a monotheist of great faith through personal realisation? As was Noach? Sola Scriptura is a late Christian doctrine that has permeated people's minds so much so that even people who lived before scripture aren't immune now, apparently. What of Job? Job is the oldest book in the Tanakh and Job was not a Jew; he had no Scripture.

Nothing is bizarre, G-d chose Noach because his pure pedigree.
I am not a one of Sola Scriptura, they don't like my kind.

 

[Rival]

Nothing is bizarre, G-d chose Noach because his pure pedigree.
I am not a one of Sola Scriptura, they don't like my kind.

I don't understand what you mean by pedigree.

Here, G-d says why, Bereshis/Genesis chapter 7 verse 1,

And the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, for it is you that I have seen as a righteous man before Me in this generation.

Chapter 6 verses 8 and 9,

But Noah found favour in the eyes of the Lord.

These are the generations of Noah, Noah was a righteous man he was perfect in his generations; Noah walked with God.

 

[leov]

I don't understand what you mean by pedigree.

Here, G-d says why, Bereshis/Genesis chapter 7 verse 1,

And the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, for it is you that I have seen as a righteous man before Me in this generation.

Chapter 6 verses 8 and 9,

But Noah found favour in the eyes of the Lord.

These are the generations of Noah, Noah was a righteous man he was perfect in his generations; Noah walked with God.

Strong's Hebrew: 3205. יָלַד (yalad) -- to bear, bring forth, beget Noah had pure unmixed birth line while other had mixed and up to no good and "evil continually".

 

[Rival]

Strong's Hebrew: 3205. יָלַד (yalad) -- to bear, bring forth, beget Noah had pure unmixed birth line while other had mixed and up to no good and "evil continually

So why didn't G-d save all those other so-called unmixed people? All you're doing here is denigrating Noach.

Your source says nothing about being mixed.