Getting stoned!!#$&*. Where does it come from?

[Link]

It’s interesting that you would consider stoning a control method but presumably not lashing.

Don't side track the topic.

 

[firedragon]

It’s interesting that you would consider stoning a control method but presumably not lashing.

Thanks. Great assumption and tu quoque fallacy. Irrelevant. Good attempt.

 

[danieldemol]

Thanks. Great assumption and tu quoque fallacy. Irrelevant. Good attempt.

‘Tū quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/;[1]Latin for "you also"), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).’*

It looks to me like you were arguing that stoning was possibly brought about as a control method.

I agree with the idea that stoning, like lashes was brought about as a control method and was not trying to discredit that.

I misread your argument to be implying that it can’t have been insisted on by Muhammad as it is a control method.

But I’m glad we turned out to be in agreement that lashes (as prescribed in Quran) is like stoning in that it is a control method.

*Tu quoque - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

‘Tū quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/;[1]Latin for "you also"), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).’*

It looks to me like you were arguing that stoning was possibly brought about as a control method.

I agree with the idea that stoning, like lashes was brought about as a control method and was not trying to discredit that.

I misread your argument to be implying that it can’t have been insisted on by Muhammad as it is a control method.

But I’m glad we turned out to be in agreement that lashes (as prescribed in Quran) is like stoning in that it is a control method.

*Tu quoque - Wikipedia

Nice. Thanks.

 

[Piculet]

Nice. Thanks.

What are you trying to say — can you be direct about it? Do you reject hadiths if they displease you? Are you one of those who disregard the verse about crucifixion and the cutting off hands as irrelevant to the modern world? Do you believe a woman should get half the inheritance a man gets?

 

[firedragon]

What are you trying to say — can you be direct about it? Do you reject hadiths if they displease you? Are you one of those who disregard the verse about crucifixion and the cutting off hands as irrelevant to the modern world? Do you believe a woman should get half the inheritance a man gets?

Not relevant. Please read the OP and respond if you have some insight brother. Thanks.

 

[Link]

What are you trying to say — can you be direct about it? Do you reject hadiths if they displease you? Are you one of those who disregard the verse about crucifixion and the cutting off hands as irrelevant to the modern world? Do you believe a woman should get half the inheritance a man gets?

I neither believe cutting off hands to be literal nor lashing, but rather, it means cut their ability to steal for a period until they repent and reform themselves, and as for half inheritance, there is a purpose to that, because God would rather have women seek a wealthy family then the other way, he doesn't want a man seeking a woman because they have wealthy parents she inherits from. This among many reasons, but it's because woman it unlike a man, and nothing like a man, they look for character as opposed to looks, and they only care about wealth because it means the man is hard working and are what causes us to work hard. God wants to keep it that way.

That said, lashing if you connect to other verses about adultery, you will see, it's metaphorical scolding of the soul, and the days which they must be isolated in their homes and witnessed by others to be "punished" means they need to show regret and repent and anguish for their deeds. You combine the verses and this is a rule in Quran, if you don't need a contradiction or abrogation and their is synthesis between verses, just as you do with hadiths, you put the two together and come up with the notion.

There is not a contradiction between keeping a women isolated in her home for a period and lashes verses, but rather lashes shows metaphorically why they are isolated and each day suppose to be scolding of the soul, but this has to be witnessed by people.

As for literal lashing, it would have in that time, resulted almost inevitably with death, even if you poured alcohol, most probably the infection would've gone deep enough by the time you done the lashing and pouring alcohol which is not instructed in Quran either, would've not stopped it. And the fact is, I know for sure the Lord of the Worlds knows about infections and would've at the very least if it was literal told them to pour alcohol after, for he is not that evil barbarian people make him out to be.

And if you combine verses, the stealing one says the purpose of cutting his ability is to reform, and so you look at staying in home with adultery verses until "death" takes them or rather they find a way, to mean, they come up a new person, and so the "lashing" is to scold the sinning self, and reform it, it's not literal, neither is cutting.

But all this OFF TOPIC. I just wanted to lay out my view, since, you keep insisting on this.

 

[Piculet]

I just wanted to lay out my view, since, you keep insisting on this.

I didn't ask for your view at all. It has zero to do with Islam. I wanted the OP to be direct about their question. Usually people who cannot accept islam as a whole do not like to share the details of their beliefs. It is as though they are ashamed.

 

[firedragon]

I didn't ask for your view at all. It has zero to do with Islam. I wanted the OP to be direct about their question. Usually people who cannot accept islam as a whole do not like to share the details of their beliefs. It is as though they are ashamed.

Still irrelevant.

 

[Piculet]

Still irrelevant.

It was in reply to someone else and relevant at that. I cannot see the point of being this childish.

 

[firedragon]

It was in reply to someone else and relevant at that. I cannot see the point of being this childish.

I think if you wish to discuss the topic of what is Islam and the hypocrisy of my OP you are alluding to as "Ashamed of Islam so I am ignoring some parts of it", or whatever you wish to discuss, you could always open a new thread, make it the topic, and I don't know how but I think you can tag whoever you want so since your addressing me, you could tag me. That would be fruitful than doing it in an irrelevant post.

Hope you understand.

 

[Piculet]

I think if you wish to discuss the topic of what is Islam and the hypocrisy of my OP you are alluding to as "Ashamed of Islam so I am ignoring some parts of it", or whatever you wish to discuss, you could always open a new thread, make it the topic, and I don't know how but I think you can tag whoever you want so since your addressing me, you could tag me. That would be fruitful than doing it in an irrelevant post.

Hope you understand.

I think your topic is rubbish and rejects the basics of Islam. You refuse to admit that but pretend there is some great wisdom behind it. Only harm is done by such talk.

 

[firedragon]

I think your topic is rubbish and rejects the basics of Islam. You refuse to admit that but pretend there is some great wisdom behind it. Only harm is done by such talk.

Haha. I think you are just looking for entertainment of some kind by arguing with someone.

Fine. So tell me. You believe "Rajm:" is the basics of Islam?

Please explain and why, objectively with evidence and reasoning.

 

[Link]

I didn't ask for your view at all. It has zero to do with Islam. I wanted the OP to be direct about their question. Usually people who cannot accept islam as a whole do not like to share the details of their beliefs. It is as though they are ashamed.

This is why Islam is a false religion while Mohammad is a true Messenger from God, and why he is neither Muslim nor Sunni nor Shiite but rather follows guidance from God and perpetually increases in guidance and knowledge towards God. He is not one to make names of religions and divide from others, but rather, he calls for harmony, unity, and is as God says "do not say to anyone you are not a believer".

 

[Piculet]

This is why Islam is a false religion while Mohammad is a true Messenger from God, and why he is neither Muslim nor Sunni nor Shiite but rather follows guidance from God and perpetually increases in guidance and knowledge towards God. He is not one to make names of religions and divide from others, but rather, he calls for harmony, unity, and is as God says "do not say to anyone you are not a believer".

This is why I haven't asked for your opinion.

 

[Link]

Haha. I think you are just looking for entertainment of some kind by arguing with someone.

Fine. So tell me. You believe "Rajm:" is the basics of Islam?

Please explain and why, objectively with evidence and reasoning.

There is none. He follows conjecture and calls it Islam. This what almost all Muslims do and this why Islam is a false religion.

 

[Link]

This is why I haven't asked for your opinion.

Doesn't matter if you asked or not, I will state it.

 

[Piculet]

Fine. So tell me. You believe "Rajm:" is the basics of Islam?

I didn't say that.

 

[Link]

Is Ilmel Rijaal from usool al-deen? It is of the foundations of religion, the reputation analysis of humans and reports of how trustworthy they are?

 

[Link]

This is my postion.