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Featured "Get Out of Her"

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Eyes to See, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    First I'd call emergency services, then I would assess the situation. If warning those who were unaware of the danger wouldn't rob my kids of their mother i would attempt to warn them.

    If my actions would cause a danger to myself or others there are a couple pf actions i could take. Throw stones at the windows of the residents. Ensure emergency services were aware if the situation when they arrived.

    No god involved
     
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I told you I had read the Bible, the story of doubting Thomas is one of the most famous.
    It doesn't convince me though.

    You can quote as much scripture to me as you like; how about I quote Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris - will you stop believing? No, well don't assume I have not read those quotes, been brought up in Christian Schools, been to Church Lads Brigade for 5-years or more. I have it preached to me, I'm still an atheist.
     
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  3. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    When one sees the truth he should heed it. Unless he likes joining untruth. On the other hand, it is like Pontius Pilate asked, "What is truth?" To me, this is an evasion tactic.
     
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  4. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Some circumstances ask or push a person to involve themselves in things they really do not believe in. In other words, they consider those things -- celebrations, etc. -- to be based on lies, but I'll leave you to figure out what those things may be.
     
  5. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    It makes sense to me. Taking away one life (in this case it's quite a 'large' life) is good enough for me. But because of the magnitude of responsibility (culpability) the so-called double payment is, shall we say, a weighty judgment.
     
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  6. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    On the contrary, "What is truth?' is a very good question indeed, in a great number of situations. All sorts of people make claims about truth. So the question is very often whom to believe, if anyone.
     
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  7. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    These are just nice stories written in a book, you know... Without any evidence to have truly happened.

    Every religion has its one set of stories and, ceteris paribus, there is no rational way to prefer one over the other.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  8. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Truth is not up for debate, something is either true or false.
    I think JC and God is/are false, religion is a con.
     
  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    The Gospels are not eyewitness accounts. How could they be, when they narrate events happening when no one was around, among other things?
     
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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I recall that during the Reformation the roman mysterium was accused of being her. This was taken literally by some people in high government positions. At the time it was very inflammatory, just one of many such inflammatory statements. I guess people justified this to themselves at the time in order to change things, but its obvious in hindsight that they didn't get out of Babylon, and generally this was a disagreement over what churches ought to do rather than a fight over what Babylon was. The world continued on its course, and the early reformation churches continued to be somewhat similar to the Roman model. This does not mean they are babylon. What it means is that we must be careful not to label other Christians or groups of people with inflammatory labels. Its something to learn from the past. The reformation could have succeeded without this angry verbiage, and it could have been peaceful.

    Hard to say. We start by saying what 'She' cannot be and what she could be.

    Clearly, whatever it is that is responsible for all of the bloodshed of *all* the human race can't be a person. They can't be her. It can't be something that only exists in our period of History, or some group of people. It has to be more broad, such as an idea, a technology, a form of government, perhaps a human quality...something huge like that. It has to be something that spans time.

    That is precisely what we are trying to determine, for if we could identify her then we could take care of business. The slippery fiend is like an invisible tick.
     
  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Do you actually have "flames," though?

    Imagine you were woken in the middle of the night by one of your neighbours who told you that you were in imminent danger of dying in a fire.

    You bundle your family up and rush out into the cold night. You then look at your building: no visible flames or smoke. You ask the person who woke you up what's going on.

    He tells you "well, no... there's none of the physical evidence someone would expect from a fire, but I read something written by a person I consider trustworthy saying that someone else - who I'm sure ought to know about stuff like this - that the fire is about to happen... and has been 'about to happen' for about 2,000 years."

    Would you be grateful or angry about what the person had done?
     
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  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    The operative word here is imminent. Add to that, something that can be confirmed as actually a threat. Now apply that to the religious zealots who try to scare people into conversions.

    Those are always about some nightmare scenario in the future that may come to get them, while there is no confirmation of imminent threat. There is nothing tangible, like telling someone not to walk under a tree on a cloudless day, because lightning might strike it and hit them underneath it.

    That's just scare tactics for conversion. Never a good way to start off a spiritual path to peace and love. Fear is the opposite of love.
     
  13. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    We call them worms (or earth worms) here, too. Night crawler might be a regional or generational thing. Only heard my grandfather call them that when he used them as fishing bait.
     
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  14. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy Spring!
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    No, they don't give eyewitness testimony. Mark, the first gospel on which the others are based, doesn't even claim to be eyewitness testimony. All 4 gospels are thoroughly mythological.

    And second of all, eyewitness testimony is well-known to not be trustworthy. Human memory is notoriously fallible.

    No, I'm sorry, Peter didn't say that. 2 Peter is well known to be a pseudepigraphal book, meaning a book that claims to have been written by an apostle but actually wasn't. They were quite common in early Christian circles.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    The Gospel of Luke describes itself as a mixture of thirdhand and (at best) fourthhand accounts: in Luke 1, it says that Luke is based on prior compilations of accounts that were "passed on to us by eyewitnesses and servants of the word."

    (And since it differentiates between "eyewitnesses" and "servants of the word," this implies that the "servants of the word" were not eyewitnesses.)

    Not true. Eyewitness testimony is weighed against other evidence.
     
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  16. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Or, suppose this.

    You're an insurance salesman. You pull the fire alarm in a big apartment building.

    Hundreds of people race out onto the street, afraid that the building is burning. It takes about an hour for evidence to arrive that it was a false alarm. But in the meantime, people are scared and confused.

    The next day, you mail flyers about your fire insurance policies to everyone in the building. You sell ten new policies. Not only do you make money, you are your agency's top salesman for the month. You get respect, cash, and self-validation. You helped people protect themselves from the dangers of fire damage.

    You forget about the lie that was pulling the fire alarm in a crowded building.
    In fact, you don't even think it was a lie. It was a wake-up call!

    That's the way I see the OP. An opportunity for an egotistical person to make a claim that benefits them, but isn't true. While ignoring real problems, like looming environmental disaster. It's like selling fire insurance to people in a building who's foundation is rotten and in danger of catastrophic collapse.

    That's how I see claims like the OP.
    Tom
     
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  17. Joe W

    Joe W Always a godfather, never a god.

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    It's a matter of credibility.

    Scientists have a long record of high and demonstrable reliability,

    Religions, including the assorted sects of Christianity, have a very long record of demonstrable unreliability. Christianity alone has produced dozens of failed apocalyptic predictions in my lifetime alone. Hundred over the last two millennia. All misses. No hits.
     
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  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I remember it being revealed that many lost their lives due to misleading promises and false hopes.
    These came from politicians and religious leaders, and I'm sure some of the merchants were involved too.
    It does show that, people do see danger, but allow themselves to be easily fooled into thinking.... "Things are not so bad."
    They trust the wrong source.
    Nevertheless, we sound the warning, because we can't decide who will act wisely, from who won't.
     
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  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I think you'd be more accurate to say, without the evidence you are looking for - namely, a supernatural being performing supernatural events right before your eyes, and you carry a mark that's visible to everyone, so you wouldn't be able to make the excuse... "I had a dream."
    God won't do that though, so you'll never see any evidence to your satisfaction... maybe. ;)
     
  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Religion certainly can be a con. But Pilate couldn't figure out what is truth when he asked Jesus, so evidently it was up in the air for him.
     
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