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Featured Genisis version of Egyptian Jewish slaves

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Riders, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Last time I put up an Egyptian thread under religious debates I agreed that there were Jewish slaves in Egypt and some people said no. I did find a timeline in Egyptian ancient records in that said something about Hebrew male slaves. So and some even non Judeo or Christian people said yes Egyptian had many slaves were very warlike and held Jewish salves.

    I found this article in the WIki to be very interesting do you agree with this, According tot his article Egyptian had very few slaves though there were a few handfuls of nomadic slaves. But the Hebrew term in the bible is loosly used which really only is a term for nomadic people of different religions.





    The Book of Genesis and Book of Exodus describe a period of Hebrew servitude in ancient Egypt, during decades of sojourn in Egypt, the escape of well over a million Israelites from the Delta, and the three-month journey through the wilderness to Sinai.[5] The historical evidence does not support this account.[6] Israelites first appear in the archeological record on the Merneptah Stele from between 1208-3 BCE at the end of the Bronze Age. A reasonably Bible-friendly interpretation is that they were a federation of Habiru tribes of the hill-country around the Jordan River. Presumably, this federation consolidated into the kingdom of Israel, and Judah split from that, during the dark age that followed the Bronze. The Bronze Age term "Habiru" was less specific than the Biblical "Hebrew". The term referred simply to Levantine nomads, of any religion or ethnicity. Mesopotamian, Hittite, Canaanite, and Egyptian sources describe them largely as bandits, mercenaries, and slaves. Certainly, there were some Habiru slaves in ancient Egypt, but native Egyptian kingdoms were not heavily slave-based.

    So were there Hebrew slaves in Egypt and the next question is did the Egyptian and Moses parting the red sea Slaves that escaped Egypt the Judeo holocost in Egypt did it happen?
     
  2. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    it may happened or not, there is no archeological finds that support the story, it may be partially true, as OT is a theological treatise not historical account.
    As far I understand conscripts would be a better word that slaves.
     
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  3. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Something that may or may not be of any relevance regarding ancient Egyptians and Israelites:

    The findings show that the mummies’ closest kin were ancient farmers from a region that includes present-day Israel and Jordan. Modern Egyptians, by contrast, have inherited more of their DNA from central Africans.

    Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry
     
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  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I doubt there was any parting of the Red Sea but sure a group of nomadic tribesmen may have decided to exit Egyptian rule and spent a long time wondering through the deserts settling in Israel.
     
  5. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    But as Wiki says nomadic does not necessarily mean Judeo or Jewish.It could be any religion
     
  6. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    OT story shows transferring Egyptian spiritual and moral authority onto Moses and Israeli that the message I see in story of Exodus,
     
  7. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    part of cultivating from Abraham a nation that would be blessing to the world .
     
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I doubt they started out with an actual unified religion. "Moses" pretty much gave them their religion.
     
  9. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You might find this interesting (there's so much evidence supporting many Biblical events that is conveniently ignored!):

    The Bible's Internal Proofs of Authenticity

    If you scroll up, the previous article is interesting, too.
     
  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I have read similar claims as this before. and they are not accurate as far as what is known concerning the origin and history of the Pentateuch.

    First, by far the majority of Hebrew historians do not accept Moses as the author of any part of the Pentateuch. The dating of the Pentateuch if no earlier than ~800-600 BCE, and that is bite of a stretch. There is absolutely no text evidence of the Pentateuch prior to this.

    There is no substantial outside evidence to confirm the origin of the Pentateuch before these dates, nor that exodus took place as described in the Pentateuch.
     
  11. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    No, this is incorrect. The dating of the oldest partial copy -- called the silver scrolls -- dates to this time.
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Yes that is why I used this date and , , , ah noted that his stretching it a bit. Nothing before this date,
     
  13. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I'm reading some interesting pieces of evidence that correlate to the fact that the story of the Jews being enslaved and lack of evidence is seemingly the case right now in archeology.
     
  14. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You can't assess an accurate date of anything original, by dating a copy of it, come on!

    I'm surprised those were found! Written on silver helped them to last.....

    Most copies of documents 1000's of years ago, copies that were expected to be read and reread (Deuteronomy 6:6-7), were written on either papyrus, or possibly vellum.

    They deteriorate with time.
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Moses lived during the period of Ramses II, who was known as a builder of monuments, because of the number of monuments he built. During his time, he supposedly used some of the stones from the great pyramid to help in construction of his monuments through his kingdom. I reckon he could have used an employment service to get his workers, but as king, he could draft his own people, and use the people he had conquered to build his legacy.

    Ramses II as the Builder of Monuments - KingTutOne.com
     
  16. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    As I understand it, there is no archaeological evidence for a mass Israelite migration out of Egypt, nor is there evidence for a large population in Egypt previous to the exodus. ~Two million people plus livestock and provisions would certainly left some remains after decades in the desert.

    There is also the question of how they managed to survive in a hot, dry, sandy desert, and why they would have stayed there so long when more salubrious regions must surely have been known to them. There is also the fact that the Bible says nothing about the Red Sea in the original manuscripts.
     
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  17. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    No. There were no Hebrew slaves in Egypt. The source you posted stated as much. There may have been slaves in Egypt who later joined the Hebrew people, but that is quite different than saying they were Hebrew slaves.

    The story of the Exodus is just part of the national epic. It most likely has some historical basis, as in, it is the recollection (and mytholization) of the struggles of one particular group. This one group are not the Hebrews, but would eventually assimilate into the Hebrew nation.
     
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  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I believe there were Israelites as slaves -- Google 'Hyksos'. As for lack of evidence, those ancient kingdoms were notorious for hiding embarrassing episodes from their histories -- and according to the Bible, the Israelites' God, Jehovah, not only devastated their land, but humiliated their gods! (Egypt had a frog goddess, Heqet; frogs were one of the plagues! And other animals were considered sacred to their gods.)

    These events, if true (and I believe they are), would explain why the evidence is scarce....no doubt the Egyptians made a good effort to remove it. But they couldn't destroy everything....I believe there are parts of chariots in the Red Sea. Egypt, to this day, discourages (bans?) efforts to conduct searches in the Red Sea, near Neweiba, from what I understand. If what I heard was true, even a curator/director from the Cairo Museum(?) was interested in checking out the claims....as a result, he was removed from that position, and discredited! Maybe there was more to the story, IDK.

    I do know one thing: Revelation 12:9 is so going on today!!
    There's so much confusion, unanswered questions, and outright deception, on both sides of every issue, it seems!
     
  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Weren't the Hyksos invaders? I don't think they were an indigenous Egyptian population.
     
  20. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Plus, as Google Earth shows us, Egypt to Israel is a roughly 2 week walk. Had they, you know, JUST GONE THERE instead of screwing around for decades, the people in the front would be there before the people in the back left Egypt.
     
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