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Genetic Code is INFORMATION: Proof of Intelligent Design

YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
suzy smith said:
I have a daughter and a son-in-law [both atheists] that are senior research scientists at the world renown Sanger Institute here it the U.K. working on DNA and the gnome.

I will not debate on DNA because I am not an expert on this highly complex subject. If however you are an expert on DNA then I bow to your expertise sir. *DNA is a part of our evolution*
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I think this is a smart way to deal with topics that are as complex as this. Unless people are actually competent to discuss it on an informed level there is little point blathering on and on about ones misconceptions and misunderstanding. Bravo to you daughter and son-in-law btw.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Kuzcotopia said:
Please don't over generalize.

All atheists do not do this, or believe this. If you have some polling evidence you'd like to share, be my guest.

Otherwise, you're just making unwarranted assumptions. Thanks.
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Well I admit that this is only my personal experience of atheists.

You may buck the trend, do you believe in ET? without even this evidence?
 
Kuzcotopia

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Guy Threepwood said:
Well I admit that this is only my personal experience of atheists.

You may buck the trend, do you believe in ET? without even this evidence?
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I don't know.

There's the Drake Equation, which suggests that the sheer vastness of the universe suggests that there is a probably likelihood, however I think that's just a bunch of guesswork.

While evolution is a fact and we have a very compelling model for natural selection, we still don't know much about how life actually started on earth. . . Whether it was abiogenesis, or DNA hitched a ride to earth from somewhere else. We'll peobably never know.

Unfortunately, until we find any kind of life anywhere else, my standard answer has to be "I don't know."

Of all my RL family, friends, and co-workers. . . I am the only atheist I know, and until there's evidence, I got nothing on this one.. Maybe it would be interesting to do a poll on this sometime in RF?

Anyway, thanks.
 
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Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Kuzcotopia said:
I don't know.

There's the Drake Equation, which suggests that the sheer vastness of the universe suggests that there is a probably likelihood, however I think that's just a bunch of guesswork.

While evolution is a fact and we have a very compelling model for natural selection, we still don't know much about how life actually started on earth. . . Whether it was abiogenesis, or DNA hitched a ride to earth from somewhere else. We'll peobably never know.

Unfortunately, until we find any kind of life anywhere else, my standard answer has to be "I don't know."

Of all my RL family, friends, and co-workers. . . I am the only atheist I know, and until there's evidence, I got nothing on this one.. Maybe it would be interesting to do a poll on this sometime in RF?

Anyway, thanks.
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Likewise I don't know, but our opinions are still opposite- as my guess would be probably not!

The vastness of the universe I get, but it is just one side of the equation, on the other is the vastness of improbability facing life. I don't think the math looks favorable for another Earth unless the universe is much much larger than we currently think
There are 7+ billion people on Earth, yet you only have to recognize a short list of mundane idiosyncrasies about yourself, to identify as utterly unique

The list of idiosyncrasies that make complex sentient life possible on Earth, is neither short nor mundane,

Either way It's always a fascinating question- are we alone- because either answer would be so profound
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Information:
"At its most fundamental, information is any propagation of cause and effect within a system"
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information)

Intelligence:
It can be more generally described as the ability to perceive information, and retain it as knowledge to be applied towards adaptive behaviors within an environment or context.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence)

DNA/Evolution is essentially an intelligence -but is not, in and of itself, a complex self-awareness.

We know that it can be manipulated by a complex self-awareness/intelligence, but do not have direct evidence of it being manipulated by such other than ourselves.

We are aware of some of the events which led to the formation of the elements and DNA -but may not have enough physical evidence/information to determine "scientifically" whether or not a complex self-awareness/intelligence was necessary to cause those events.

Certain arrangements of complex information require complex intelligence and/or self-awareness, but intelligence and self-awareness also require information -the most fundamental propagation of cause and effect within a system.

I do believe that the nature of the universe as a whole -the elements -DNA -life, etc., required a preexisting complex self-awareness/intelligence, but such would essentially be or be composed of information and that which could propagate it.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
ftacky said:
Here is another article by Genome News Networking which confirms our genetic code is classified as a language. So we must ask ourselves, in our real-world experiences, are languages generated by anything other than non-intellectual sources?

"Genome sequencing is often compared to "decoding," but a sequence is still very much in code. In a sense, a genome sequence is simply a very long string of letters in amysterious language."

"When you read a sentence, the meaning is not just in the sequence of the letters. It is also in the words those letters make and in the grammar of the language. Similarly,the human genome is more than just its sequence."

"So sequencing the genome doesn't immediately lay open the genetic secrets of an entire species. Even with a rough draft of the human genome sequence in hand, much work remains to be done. Scientists still have to translate those strings of letters into an understanding of how the genome works: what the various genes that make up the genome do, how different genes are related, and how the various parts of the genome are coordinated. That is, they have to figure out what those letters of the genome sequence mean."

Final Note: If scientists must 'translate' the genetic code, this also confirms it is a language indeed.

(ref: Genome News Networking, Genome Sequencing)
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It is quite fascinating how just a few building blocks can end up being so many different and complex creatures. It would be great if we could say god was using these proteins like a kid with a lego set, but do you really want to give god all the credit for all the genetic blunders too? Organisms are far from perfect, most of our DNA is junk and efficiency is not one of evolutions strong suits.
 
Vorkosigan

Vorkosigan

Member
ftacky said:
Here is another article by Genome News Networking which confirms our genetic code is classified as a language. So we must ask ourselves, in our real-world experiences, are languages generated by anything other than non-intellectual sources?
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If a machine starts printing all possible combinations of characters in a finite number of pages, it will end up printing mostly nonsense, but among the nonsense would be all of human literature, past, present and future.
There you have information in several languages without purpose or intellectual source.
 
A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Vorkosigan said:
If a machine starts printing all possible combinations of characters in a finite number of pages, it will end up printing mostly nonsense, but among the nonsense would be all of human literature, past, present and future.
There you have information in several languages without purpose or intellectual source.
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And if the machine like evolution and natural selection starts with one letter and add more but are given certain rules of grammar like natural laws that for example automatically prevents or selects out words with the same five letters in a row or five consonants in a row it wouldn't take many seconds for the machine to produce something understandable.

Take a random number generator. Assign each letter a number. All letters and words have different inherent properties just like atoms and molecules have different inherent properties. Two a's in a row can't bind to a third a for example. How long until you have a perfectly good sentence?
 
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viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
FearGod said:
Evolution work by random mutations, so speaking in the language terms, it could be like this

dhtjdfntrncksjbcrhjfhsgjkfkjshbghjrkkmfnhhwsjmmnfhhdensnbbf

These random mutations after billions of years resulted in the wise human, oh i forgot something, evolution
isn't all randomness, there's natural selection, so if it worked by the method of rubbish random processing
and survived then it'll pass the information to the next generation.

They know that such thing doesn't make sense but they only chose to hate God and nothing else.
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Wise human? You mean "you", or the ones who hold evolution to be true?

By the way, I cannot possibly hate someone I believe to be not existent. Do you hate Santa?

Ciao

- viole
 
Vorkosigan

Vorkosigan

Member
FearGod said:
Evolution work by random mutations, so speaking in the language terms, it could be like this

dhtjdfntrncksjbcrhjfhsgjkfkjshbghjrkkmfnhhwsjmmnfhhdensnbbf

These random mutations after billions of years resulted in the wise human, oh i forgot something, evolution
isn't all randomness, there's natural selection, so if it worked by the method of rubbish random processing
and survived then it'll pass the information to the next generation.

They know that such thing doesn't make sense but they only chose to hate God and nothing else.
Click to expand...

I have news for you; reality doesn’t have to make sense. It is what it is.
 
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