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Featured Genesis & Science - Friend or Foe?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by nPeace, May 17, 2019.

  1. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    That, at last, is an honest admission. And that is one of the reasons you argue against ToE. You don't understand it any more than a person who has never looked under the hood understands how an engine works. You have no knowledge of things like biology or palaeontology. More important, you intentionally remain ignorant of science because you know it conflicts with your deep rooted religious beliefs.
     
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  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Getting your ears tickled... again? :smirk:
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    To my left I have my "Oxford Desk Dictionary", and generally speaking it's quite reliable, and I do use it at times, but I don't believe it's inerrant.

    The Bible is not God, nor is God the Bible. I don't have to accept every single word at face-value within it to appreciate and believe in most of what it teaches. Therefore, to me it makes not one iota of sense to deify the Bible, thus making it an idol of sorts, whereas I can and do read it daily as a source for my beliefs and inspiration. I believe that the Holy Spirit has a role to play in helping us if we are sincere in our approach, so even though I don't view the Bible as being inerrant, I can and do put the Holy Spirit to work.

    Also, for you to state that one is somehow not a Christian simply because they don't blindly accept your believe in Biblical inerrancy is highly unethical, imo, and also in defiance of what is said in Jesus' Sermon On the Mount and his Parable of the Sheep & Goats, neither of which endorses Biblical inerrancy but does state that we are to live the "law of love". And John 3 [16] teaches us about having a belief in God and in Jesus, not about viewing all scripture as supposedly being inerrant.

    So, are you going to believe in God and Jesus or what your JW master's tell you to believe?

    I taught Jewish theology in the Lunch & Learn program at the synagogue I used to belong to, and what you have done is to play fast & loose with the Hebrew while at the same time ignoring how the language is structured and used throughout Torah. It is no mystery for those who use Hebrew to know what "yom" is and how it's used, which I had explained in my previous post, including the exception when it's used symbolically, which is usually easy to tell since there are lead-in statements to show it's being used as such.

    The rest of your post seems too much like word-salad, thus meant to try and impress, so let me make a recommendation: keep your posts far less wordy, and please get to the point. We're supposed to be writing posts, not rambling essays.

    That I can 100% agree with!

    Have a great and most blessed weekend as I'm not sure I'll be able to get back here to RF until Monday.
     
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  4. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Correct. You have every right to pick and choose those parts of scripture to accept, to consider allegory or to ignore just like every other religious person of any belief.
     
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  5. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    The links provided. Did you look at any of them? If not, why repeat them?

    Is this a threat? Let me repeat my"slander." The JWs are anti-advanced education and anti-intellectual. Why don't you file the lawsuit yourself. I'll be glad to exchange personal information in preparation for the lawsuits.

    The theory of biological evolution was developed by scientists studying natural processes. It has already already confirmed.

    Yes, you did, and you were correct when you did. Your error was thinking that biological was not a form of biological evolution at the scale of populations and generations.

    Your knowledge of science is too weak for you to be arguing against it. Your repeated discussions of immunity are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    Lamarckinaism? Already debunked.

    Useless to you, perhaps.

    You've already seen a dozen. What use would two more be?
     
    #625 It Aint Necessarily So, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Wow. :nomouth:
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    I was discussing a statement made that was not accurate.


    I made no threats. Did you interpret it as a threat?
    You don't even seem to know what you said either, nor did you published it as a fact.


    Why do you keep repeating those lines,?
    That does not follow anything said. You probably just like to hear yourself repeat it, I guess.


    No I did not.

    Huh???



    Ditto.


    .........
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Would it be asking to much of you to show that the Exodus did not happen?
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Historicity
    Possible historical bases for the broad mythological narrative remain unclear and disputed.

    Modern scholarship approaches the various known stories of the myth as cumulative elaborations and later interpretations of Roman foundation-myth. Particular versions and collations were presented by Roman historians as authoritative, an official history trimmed of contradictions and untidy variants to justify contemporary developments, genealogies and actions in relation to Roman morality. Other narratives appear to represent popular or folkloric tradition; some of these remain inscrutable in purpose and meaning. Wiseman sums the whole as the mythography of an unusually problematic foundation and early history.

    The unsavoury elements of many of the myths concerning Romulus have led some scholars to describe them as "shameful" or "disreputable". In antiquity such stories became part of anti-Roman and anti-pagan propaganda. More recently, the historian Hermann Strasburger postulated that these were never part of authentic Roman tradition, but were invented and popularized by Rome's enemies, probably in Magna Graecia, during the latter part of the fourth century BC. This hypothesis is rejected by other scholars, such as Tim Cornell, who notes that by this period, the story of Romulus and Remus had already assumed its standard form, and was widely accepted at Rome. Other elements of the Romulus mythos clearly resemble common elements of folk tale and legend, and thus strong evidence that the stories were both old and indigenous. Likewise, Momigliano finds Strasburger's argument well-developed, but entirely implausible; if the Romulus myths were an exercise in mockery, they were a signal failure.


    This illustrates what could occur with opinions concerning what may well be historical facts. Errors are another factor (not ruling out deliberate efforts).
    It may well be that errors were made regarding specific detail, although the flood did occur, and there are opinions that differ, but it does not mean that an opinion is right because of the person uttering it.
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Here is that list I promised...
    God created... Genesis 1 & 2
    Isaiah 40:26
    Romans 1:20
    Job 38
    The entire book of Psalms - Psalm 19; 89:11, 12; 89:47; 100:3; 102:25; 148
    Isaiah 40:25, 26; 42:5; 45:11, 12, 18
    11 This is what Jehovah says, the Holy One of Israel, the One who formed him: “Would you question me about the things coming And command me about my sons and the works of my hands? 12 I made the earth and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with my own hands, And I give orders to all their army.”
    18 For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.

    Isaiah 57:16 ...the breathing creatures that I have made.
    Amos 4:13...he is the One who formed the mountains and created the wind;
    Ephesians 3:9 . . .God, who created all things.
    Acts 17:24-26
    24 The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples; 25 nor is he served by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all people life and breath and all things. 26 And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell,
    Colossians 1:15, 16
    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.
    1 Timothy 4:3, 4
    3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

    ....Adam and Eve. The reason for the fall of man and redemption.
    Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.
    Genesis 1:26-28
    Genesis 5:1, 2)
    1 This is the book of Adam’s history. In the day that God created Adam, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them. On the day they were created, he blessed them and named them Man.
    1 Chronicles 1:1-5
    Matthew 19:3-6
    Mark 10:6 However, from the beginning of creation, ‘He made them male and female.
    Luke 3:23-38
    23 When Jesus began his work, he was about 30 years old, being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of Heʹli, ... 36 son of Cainan, son of Arpachshad, son of Shem, son of Noah, son of Laʹmech... 38 son of Enosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.
    John 3:14-18
    14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
    Romans 3:21-26
    21 But now apart from law God’s righteousness has been revealed, as the Law and the Prophets bear witness, 22 yes, God’s righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was to demonstrate his own righteousness, because God in his forbearance was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past. 26 This was to demonstrate his own righteousness in this present season, so that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man who has faith in Jesus.
    Romans 5:12-21
    Romans 6:23For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    1 Corinthians 11:8, 9
    8 For man did not come from woman, but woman came from man. 9 And what is more, man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man.
    1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
    1 Timothy 2:13, 14
    13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.
    Jude 14 Yes, the seventh one in line from Adam, Eʹnoch, also prophesied about them when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads


    The fall of the first man.
    With regard to sin, and the fall of man, and salvation through Christ's death, that's practically all 13 Letters of Paul.

    ...All kinds of animals
    Genesis 2:15-25

    God brought a deluge to destroy earth's inhabitants - sparing obedient Noah and family members, and preserving all kinds of animals. God also destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, sparing Lot.
    Isaiah 54:9“This is like the days of Noah to me. Just as I have sworn that the waters of Noah will no more cover the earth, So I swear that I will no more become indignant toward you or rebuke you.
    Ezekiel 14:14 “‘Even if these three men—Noah, Daniel, and Job—were within it, they would be able to save only themselves because of their righteousness,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”

    Luke 17:26-30
    26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.
    Hebrews 11:7By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that results from faith.
    1 Peter 3:18-20
    18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
    2 Peter 2:5-10
    5 And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And by reducing the cities of Sodʹom and Gomorrah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come. 7 And he rescued righteous Lot, who was greatly distressed by the brazen conduct of the lawless people— 8 for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them. 9 So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, 10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority.. . .

    Clearly Jesus and his apostles were not referencing some fable.
    Lot was a real character.

    Genesis 11:10-32
    Luke 17:32Remember the wife of Lot.

    For those who claim Lot was fictional...
    If Lot is fictional, then Abraham is fictional.

    Genesis 13:5 Now Lot, who was traveling with Abram, also owned sheep, cattle, and tents. . .
    Genesis 14:1-16 Abram rescues Lot

    If Abraham is fictional, then ...

    Practically the entire Bible refers to what some allude to as fiction, as fact.
    The way I see it, "you can't have your cake and eat it too", not from what is clearly evident.
    Picking and choosing what one wants to believe, and what one does not want to believe, from the Bible, is like a man, ripping pages from the Bible. Soon enough, he realizes that he wasted his time. He could have thrown the whole book in the garbage,one time, and called it George.
    In my view, that's basically what persons have done, who insists on referring to the creation account, the garden of Eden account, the flood account, the Soddom and Gomorrah account, the fall of Jericho account, etc., etc., etc., as myths.
    So whether they hold on to the Bible or not, or claim to believe it, it appears to me, they don't. So it's puzzling to me, why they do, unless they use it as a a cover. The Bible is full of miracles which they call myth... I'm speechless.

    Who walks around with a book of myths, and is quick to point them out. To my mind, that person may as well collect all the Egyptian, and other pagan myths, are carry them around as well. It makes no sense to me.
    Perhaps someone will explain. :shrug:
     
  11. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    It is hardly worth the effort, but I will spare you a cut and paste:

    William Dever, an archaeologist normally associated with the more conservative end of Syro-Palestinian archaeology, has labeled the question of the historicity of Exodus “dead.” Israeli archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog provides the current consensus view on the historicity of the Exodus:

    ”The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction — made in the seventh century [BCE] — of a history that never happened.

    Professor of Ancient History and Archaeology Eric H. ClineWikipedia's W.svg also summarizes the scholarly consensus in his book Biblical Archaeology: A Very Short Introduction (published by Oxford University Press and winner of the 2011 Biblical Archaeology Society's "Best Popular Book on Archaeology"):

    Despite attempts by a number of biblical archaeologists — and an even larger number of amateur enthusiasts — over the years, credible direct archaeological evidence for the Exodus has yet to be found.

    While it can be argued that such evidence would be difficult to find, since nomads generally do not leave behind permanent installations, archaeologists have discovered and excavated nomadic emplacements from other periods in the Sinai desert.

    So if there were archaeological remains to be found from the Exodus, one would have expected them to be found by now. And yet, thus far there is no trace of the biblical "600,000 men on foot, besides children" plus "a mixed crowd...and live stock in great numbers" (Exod. 12:37-38) who wandered for forty years in the desert.

    Sapiens' note: If you do the calculations, as I have, for the Exodus' alleged route and the square area of the Sinai you will find that there should be at least one firepit in every 200 square feet of the Sinai, yet there are none. And ... how about the kitchen middens, burials, etc.?

    This issue has even been recognized by Jewish joke writers:

    Moses was sitting in the Egyptian ghetto. Things were terrible. Pharaoh wouldn't even speak to him. The rest of the Israelites were mad at him and making the overseers even more irritable than usual, etc. He was about ready to give up. Suddenly a booming, sonorous voice spoke from above: "You, Moses, heed me ! I have good news, and bad news." Moses was staggered. The voice continued: "You, Moses, will lead the People of Israel from bondage. If Pharaoh refuses to release your bonds, I will smite Egypt with a rain of frogs" "You, Moses, will lead the People of Israel to the Promised Land. If Pharaoh blocks your way, I will smite Egypt with a plague of Locust." "You, Moses, will lead the People of Israel to freedom and safety. If Pharaoh's army pursues you, I will part the waters of the Red Sea to open your path to the Promised Land." Moses was stunned. He stammered, "That's.... that's fantastic. I can't believe it! --- But what's the bad news?" "You, Moses, must write the Environmental Impact Statement."

    source: Moses and the Plagues Jokes - Passover Jokes
     
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  12. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    My comment indicated that in my opinion, another poster had successfully argued that the Jehovah's Witnesses discouraged their own from attending university, which he called education rather than formal education. You made a semantic argument deflecting from that point that the JWs weren't against education because they didn't mind people learning trades. But you never rebutted the anti-intellectualism claim, the evidence for it was convincing, and the matter is settled.

    You threatened me with a lawsuit for slander. I didn't feel threatened, but that was your intent - to put some fear in me about writing things such as I just did.

    I wrote, "The theory of biological evolution was developed by scientists studying natural processes. It has already already confirmed" in response to your comment, "The study of natural processes is not ToE."

    Both statements I made were correct. One clarified the relationship of the theory and science.

    You still haven't told me why anybody would trade a system of ideas that unifies mountains of data from a multitude of sources, accurately makes predictions about what can and cannot be found in nature, provides a rational mechanism for evolution consistent with the known actions of nature, accounts for both the commonality of all life as well as biodiversity, and has had practical applications that have improved the human condition in areas like medicine and agriculture for a sterile idea like creationism that can do none of those things and having no predictive power, can be used for nothing.

    You said that you answered it, but if you had, I would know why you think somebody should do that. I don't. In fact, I know the opposite. They shouldn't. I was curious what answer you could give to that question, and if you can't give a good answer, why you persist in trying to creationism and trying to find fault with the science.

    That's not how burden of proof works. If you claim that the Exodus did occur, and you want to be believed, you'll need to provide the evidence and argument that shows that it did.

    You'll also need to account for the absence of the expected archeological evidence in the region that so many thousands of people were said to have been living for forty years..

    If there was not 40 days of rain culminating in the submerging of all dry land on earth, then the flood described in the Bible did not occur.

    I had a similar discussion once about the god of the Old Testament, who I said couldn't possibly exist as described since mutually exclusive qualities were attributed to it such as being perfect, yet making a mistake, regretting it, and then trying unsuccessfully to remedy the error. The other guy told me the same thing - maybe the story is wrong. Change it a little bit, and the god is restored.

    But that wouldn't be the same god, I told him, and I'm telling you something similar. If the flood in question didn't occur as described, then it didn't occur. Lesser floods have occurred thousands of times, but they are not the global flood of scripture.
     
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  13. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    I completely disagree with your beliefs.

    However, I do respect where you are coming from. Most people do exactly what you said - they pick and choose what to believe and what to discard. Like you, I think that completely obviates the purpose of Religious Scripture.

    In another thread, two people disbelieve Genesis but somehow believe the gospels. I find this to be ridiculous. You probably agree.

    However, from the standpoint of an observer, I can somewhat understand the disconnect. Genesis has been scientifically disproven. Jesus' existence, "death" and resurrection, has not.

    To me, it is just as nonsensical to believe that someone accurately recorded all 2000+ words of the Sermon on the Mount as it is to believe in the Ark story.

    You do realize that if Marcion had won out, you too would not be arguing for Genesis.
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I thought you had scientific evidence. This is mere opinion. It's not science. I thought you were going to show me some sort of evidence that showed the Exodus could not have happened.
    I'm disappointed, but thanks for taking the time anyway.

    Meanwhile, there is much evidence being presented, for the Exodus, which is only being denied.
    So it seems to be a matter of opinions winning out because the vast majority of scholars are seeking to discredit the Bible.

    The Exodus documented in ancient inscriptions
    A collection of 16 previously untranslated ancient inscriptions lay in museums for 100 years but have now been translated by Dr. Doug Petrovich
    . The result is one of the most important archeological discoveries of all time. There are references to four Bible characters, including Moses.
    "What we read in the book, we find in the ground"


    New Discoveries Indicate Hebrew was World's Oldest Alphabet

    Sinai Inscriptions
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Concluding Words...

    While conceding that his research has been met with considerable cynicism from fellow scholars, who state that biblical dates are unreliable, Petrovich contended that the onus is on them to prove him wrong.

    “My discoveries are so controversial because, if correct, they will rewrite the history books and undermine much of the assumptions and misconceptions about the ancient Hebrew people and the Bible that have become commonly accepted in the scholarly world and taught as factual in the world’s leading universities,” he said during the interview.

    “To my skeptics, I say: ‘Continue to be skeptical. Do not accept my conclusions until you are convinced they are correct.’” Petrovich added: “Truth is un-killable, so if I am correct, my findings will outlast scholarly scrutiny.”


    The onus is on you, to provide evidence to prove the findings wrong.
    Though, I don't depend upon these findings, it is clear that all you can rely on, are opinions - no evidence whatsoever.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what the topic of the thread is? Okay then.
    It was not about JWs. I am under no obligation to divert from a topic to discuss irrelevant subjects.
    If they want to discuss that among themselves, then they are free to do so.
    I am interested in correcting false statements, that may be made in hindsight.
    I did not deny that they discourage pursuing higher education, and I posted the reason, from the official website.
    No one is concerned about the reasons, so why would you want me to pay interest? I am not interested in correcting remarks deliberately made as a form of mockery.
    Do you think they or you, are the first to talk, and make opinionated remarks like you did?
    Are JWs bothered? Nope..
    "When elephants walk by, dogs bark". :laughing:

    [​IMG]

    No I did not. Please read to understand what is written.
    Or maybe you want to believe whatever you want to. Go ahead.

    I made a statement to another poster.
    The flue virus adapts, like everything else, including your immune system. This has nothing to do with ToE.

    You jumped in with... something.
    To me, it was irrelevant, because, we know that adaptation, can be different and separate from ToE.
    So what I said is not wrong, but you wanted in, so here we are.

    I replied with...
    So? The study of natural processes has everything to do with the advancement of all sciences
    The study of natural processes is not ToE.


    Then note your reply...
    The theory of biological evolution was developed by scientists studying natural processes. It has already already confirmed.

    Irrelevant again.
    I didn't ask you that.
    What's the beef. You want conflict? We'll go till it's done, but I have no interest in going where we have gone before, so I really hope you awake from that dream.

    You are obviously not paying attention, or perhaps you just are not trying to understand.... anything I say.

    Did you notice the thread title?
    Now notice where you jumped in again. At my response to a another poster.
    Now notice the poster's comment.
    Since you claim to know about the burden of proof, and you claim the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
    Look again. That's not me.

    Pardon me? Not that I am hard of hearing. I just don't understand what you are trying to say here.

    What do you mean he "told you the same thing" - the same thing as what?

    If the flood in question didn't occur as described, then it didn't occur?
    If the flood in question did occur as described, then it did occur. :confused:
     
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  16. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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  17. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Clear scientific evidence was presented.
    Petrovich is a known quack, creationist, clown show, etc. He does not have a real academic appointment at a real university (adjunct faculty is a term used for hired and abused help) and his major claimed affiliation is with The Bible Seminary, an organization whose only accreditation is with the fly-by-night "Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools" that also accredits institutions such as "Southern California State University" (not USC nor a state university) and St. Luke (note the deceptive naming, not St. Luke's, but St. Luke ... what a difference an "s" makes). In any case, Petrovich is not the sort that any competent researcher would use in the sort of Appeal to Authority that you are attempting, reducing your argument to a Logical Fallacy.

    Two more thoughts:

    1. The onus of proof goes with the claimant... that's you.
    2. It is not a matter of opinions, I challenge you to explain the complete absence of any archeological evidence of the Exodus.
     
    #637 Sapiens, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Not by you.
    Everyone has evidence, and most want to argue that theirs is scientific while the other is not.
    You presented opinions. Nothing more.

    It would not matter what evidence is presented to show you are wrong. All who oppose your preferred opinion would be quacks, and quirks.
    So I won't bother with any of the others.
    You've already made up your mind which opinion you like.
     
  19. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    No. Quacks and quirks are confined to those who claim an exodus on the sole basis of surviving mythology and who lack any physical evidence of the event, evidence which should be easily found if the Exodus were factual.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Where do you think Genesis came from? Who do you think wrote it?
     
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