stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
There's a difference between the literal and the figurative. The above is 100% figurative. The big yellow ball in the sky is quite literal.
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Genesis question regarding light.
- Thread starter stevecanuck
- Start date
There's a difference between the literal and the figurative. The above is 100% figurative. The big yellow ball in the sky is quite literal.
It isn't meant to be understood by you. Its written by Jews for Jews. The Quran is written to everyone and says so. That's what you're missing.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
One answer is that Biblical scholars are quite sure that there are two narratives told in Genesis. The story is not meant to be taken literally so there will not be a right answer.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
No. Genesis is easy to understand (in the sense that every verse can be understood). What I'm missing is how the night and the day can be separated before the sun was invented to do the job.
Is the sun not part of the heavens?
Again, it was part - a very very small part - of “the heavens” created in Genesis 1:1.
obviously you’re biased. Don’t let that ‘cloud’ your reasoning, so you can’t ‘see’ the light.
excuse the pun, I just couldn’t help it.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Right. When in doubt, cry, "Metaphor"!!!
Yes... the big yellow ball is figurative. But I thought you were asking the question of what the first "light" could be.
Notice that at the end, there is a light that isn't the yellow ball... It is quite conceivable that the first light and the last light are one in the same.
Whether it is figurative or not is a theological debate.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Nope. The contradiction is the bleedin' obvious. No bias required. We're to believe that god separated the night from the day on day 1, and then created the sun on day 4 (I erred earlier in saying it was day 3).
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Nope. On the next cloudless day at about noon, look up at it. Don't blink. Don't shade your eyes. You will eventually figure it out.
It is defined in the bible as light that god called 'day'. He separated that from the night. I'm pretty sure we all know that the sun does that. I realize I'm asking religious people to use linear logic. My bad.
Aaaand, more religious double-talk in lieu of a rational answer.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's a logical inference based on commentary on Gen 1:4.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Light is light it's not old.
It's present.
A human thinks. Says I believe the sun burning as a self consuming mass was once bigger.
I do a number calculus stating I think so much mass is gone from a sun body type.
As exact.
If a body isn't burning now and I now set it alight that light is instant now.
Not before. So it's not old.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/496140/jewish/When-did-Gd-create-light.htm
You'll note that this is very close to the answer I provided in post #2.
Question:
If you look at Genesis, you will see that G‑d created light on Day One. However, Scripture also says that G‑d created the sun, moon, stars, etc. on Day Four. So what was this light then that was created on Day One?
Answer:
The Talmud cites two views. One is that the light created on Day One was extremely brilliant, but G‑d foresaw that the world was undeserving of it, so He concealed this light for the righteous in the hereafter. According to the second opinion, however, the light created on Day One was in fact the light from the luminaries — which were then "hung in the sky" on Day Four.
If you look at Genesis, you will see that G‑d created light on Day One. However, Scripture also says that G‑d created the sun, moon, stars, etc. on Day Four. So what was this light then that was created on Day One?
Answer:
The Talmud cites two views. One is that the light created on Day One was extremely brilliant, but G‑d foresaw that the world was undeserving of it, so He concealed this light for the righteous in the hereafter. According to the second opinion, however, the light created on Day One was in fact the light from the luminaries — which were then "hung in the sky" on Day Four.
I'm sorry... my brain was faster than my fingers... I meant to type the ball is the sun - not figurative.
Why is it irrational?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Do you need some articles? After all we know that the Genesis account is far from accurate. Why would you expect an ancient people to get that right?
This raises the question, what is the place of photons in the great scheme of things.
Matter constantly absorbs and emits photons as it heats or cools. So if a material thing is warmer than absolute zero, it will emit and absorb photons. Atoms and molecules require electrons, particles charged with EM energy; without that attractive force the constituent parts of an atom or molecule would only cohere to the extent allowed by the strong and weak forces.
So the existence of, if not the heavens, then the earth, in Genesis 1:1, is not possible unless photons ─ light, EM ─ also existed.
Putting on my dunce's cap ─ sorry, my apologist's hat ─ I rationalize that God originally created the EM spectrum but it amused [him] to omit the frequencies of light visible to the animal eye, that is, the wavelengths from roughly 740 nm to roughly 380 nm. So when God said, Let there be light, the sun was then, but not before, able to produce light in those frequencies.
Of course, the processes by which God was able to do these things are not described, but are attributed to the magic command, "Let there be light".
Love is the darkness, the mystery. Light is the illumination of it.
Not really. The knowledge of something and the understanding of something are slightly different. I can know someone but not necessarily understand someone. There is a contrast and an event.
InChrist
Free4ever
That question has been discussed, debated and speculated on by many biblical scholars throughout history.
I lean toward the idea that Christ (the Son of God) who created all things (Colossians 1:16) and is the Light of the world ( John 8:12) was the light in the initial days of creation, before the physical sun was created. I don’t think separating light from darkness during the first few days before the sun, moon and stars would have posed a problem for God.
Suave
Simulated character
"Most scientists think Earth’s early atmosphere looked similar to that of today—dominated by nitrogen and carbon dioxide, largely transparent, and having clouds scattered across the globe. This view contrasts with RTB’s model where Earth’s early atmosphere was translucent (rather than transparent) such that the Sun, Moon, and stars could not be seen regularly from Earth’s surface. One recent paper provides some evidence that supports RTB’s model.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light…. And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day….
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,… And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day. (Genesis 1:3, 5b; 1:14, 19)
RTB’s creation model takes these two miracles, on creation days one and four, as describing two different changes to the atmosphere. Day one saw a clearing of the atmosphere so that sunlight could now reach Earth’s surface. Day four brought a further clearing so that the objects providing the light could be seen from Earth’s surface. This interpretation means that between the two “days,” Earth’s atmosphere was hazy and/or cloudy like a rainy day (or a really smoggy day for those big city dwellers).
Most markers of Earth’s early atmosphere indicate that it consisted of carbon dioxide, water vapor, and nitrogen—similar to today’s atmosphere, minus the oxygen. If so, one would reasonably expect the atmosphere to look like it does today, with clouds scattered over the globe but otherwise clear skies. Yet one additional component on the early Earth may have led to a hazy, translucent atmosphere.
A team of scientists studying 2.65 billion-year-old geological features in South Africa found evidence that methane and other organic materials played an important role in the planet’s atmosphere prior to the great oxygenation event.1 Just like on Titan (one of Saturn’s moons) today, these organics likely produced a haze in the atmosphere that would have shielded Earth’s surface from a sizable amount of the Sun’s radiation. One outstanding question pertains to how much haze the organics would produce. In their search for an answer, the team found two stable states of methane concentrations—a higher one that produced a significant haze and a lower one that produced very little. The fact that methane exists in these two stable states leads to a plausible scenario that matches the RTB model.
Early in Earth’s history there was a larger methane concentration. Photosynthetic life was also present, which introduced more oxygen to the atmosphere. Though oxygen reacts with the methane, it also reacts with many other things throughout the planet’s atmosphere and interior. Consequently, early Earth would consume oxygen faster than it was produced; thus, preventing early atmospheric oxygen levels from rising. So simply having oxygen-producing life present on the planet wouldn’t have significantly lowered the methane concentration.
However, by about 2.5 billion years ago, Earth’s oxygen sinks had filled up and the atmospheric oxygen increased dramatically (during the great oxygenation event), causing the methane concentration level to drop and go from a hazy to a clear state. It remains in this clear state to the present day.
Although plausible, not enough scientific data exists to validate or falsify this scenario. Since the prevailing view of the early atmosphere stands in contrast to the RTB model, it represents a fruitful arena to test creation model predictions."
Aubrey L. Zerkle et al., “A Bistable Organic-rich Atmosphere on the Neoarchaean Earth,” Nature Geoscience (published online March 18, 2012), doi:10.1038/ngeo1425, Browse Articles | Nature Geoscience.
A Hazy Atmosphere on Early Earth
rational experiences
Veteran Member
All themes said knowingly by a human man's only as consciousness lying.
You can't theme what it would be like without your biological body mind living as a human.
You'd be lying.
Are you without your origin parent mind biology consciousness?
Yes. Even science says it's true.
Do you know you are?
Yes.
So your brain mind perspective is trying to explain why it's wrong!
Sun light is vacuum voided. Precise.
Earths sun light gas burning mass is now from cold sun...asteroid dusts is the input fuel.
Cold burning sun. Not the real sun.
So proof a tiny orbital of earths mass is giant cloud cooled imaged. Proving clouds keep gods ground fusion fused by image of body in clouds Exact.
Now state... once humans talking direct now then now lived on earth on a bare naked ground.
As our water type is nature oxygenated to live.
Bare naked a reason in the topic review.
You quote. Life got evicted out of gardens nature by not covering of the humans body.
So what did gods heaven cover bare naked earth with. And humans natural holy life is bare naked always too?
Water oxygen. Exact.
You're told by the reading you aren't your origin parents anymore by sacrifice of gods altar stone laws.
What types of light change?
Gas types.
So as you caused in science gods mass to convert light gases removing into a sin..sink hole caused light variables as witnessed only. As gases do own variable light.
As no human can count a day unless you are living. Fact as a day first does not exist on earth. Balances do.
As you don't own why cosmic causes changed any other body by type origin. Cosmic causes.
As in fact if an asteroid cold sun mass hit earth.... earths origin changed instantly.
So earth does not own any origin type now. It's all converted. As asteroids have hit earth.
The warning. Don't believe what you see as change of life consciousness was already advised. The warning exact to human scientists. Brain identity had changed.
Book written against scientists.
Theory owns no purpose to a human ever living exact now.
So we are the human parents now only. As origin is gone.
Therefore if DNA is bible correlated to the same life now we are all sacrificed and just surviving.
And the origin light hadn't yet returned to own healthy highest bio cells.
Year 2012 by long count value has been changed since byJesus burning asteroid attack.
As it's value status was stated by old testament only.
Why it said we are all still in the sacrifice position naturally.
You can't theme what it would be like without your biological body mind living as a human.
You'd be lying.
Are you without your origin parent mind biology consciousness?
Yes. Even science says it's true.
Do you know you are?
Yes.
So your brain mind perspective is trying to explain why it's wrong!
Sun light is vacuum voided. Precise.
Earths sun light gas burning mass is now from cold sun...asteroid dusts is the input fuel.
Cold burning sun. Not the real sun.
So proof a tiny orbital of earths mass is giant cloud cooled imaged. Proving clouds keep gods ground fusion fused by image of body in clouds Exact.
Now state... once humans talking direct now then now lived on earth on a bare naked ground.
As our water type is nature oxygenated to live.
Bare naked a reason in the topic review.
You quote. Life got evicted out of gardens nature by not covering of the humans body.
So what did gods heaven cover bare naked earth with. And humans natural holy life is bare naked always too?
Water oxygen. Exact.
You're told by the reading you aren't your origin parents anymore by sacrifice of gods altar stone laws.
What types of light change?
Gas types.
So as you caused in science gods mass to convert light gases removing into a sin..sink hole caused light variables as witnessed only. As gases do own variable light.
As no human can count a day unless you are living. Fact as a day first does not exist on earth. Balances do.
As you don't own why cosmic causes changed any other body by type origin. Cosmic causes.
As in fact if an asteroid cold sun mass hit earth.... earths origin changed instantly.
So earth does not own any origin type now. It's all converted. As asteroids have hit earth.
The warning. Don't believe what you see as change of life consciousness was already advised. The warning exact to human scientists. Brain identity had changed.
Book written against scientists.
Theory owns no purpose to a human ever living exact now.
So we are the human parents now only. As origin is gone.
Therefore if DNA is bible correlated to the same life now we are all sacrificed and just surviving.
And the origin light hadn't yet returned to own healthy highest bio cells.
Year 2012 by long count value has been changed since byJesus burning asteroid attack.
As it's value status was stated by old testament only.
Why it said we are all still in the sacrifice position naturally.