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Genesis 8

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Aqualung, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes you are correct Gods kingdom and the earth will never be destroyed
    And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite ....Daniel 2;44

    Matthew 6:10) Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth

    And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant

    (Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end................... we are in the time of the end now . 1914 was the start of the lastdays,( the last days of man ruling himself independant of God,) Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly goverment in the heavens in 1914 .yes its all happening according to bible chronology and bible prophecy

     
  2. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    Why 1914? I'm not very familiar.

    I'd like to note something about the Bible chronology you mentioned. Daniel was told to seal up those words because the time was not near. However, John was told not to seal up the words of his prophecy because the time was near. If Daniel's prophecy was not near 2600 years ago, why was John's prophecy near 2000 years ago?

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    because when daniel wrote his words it was to be a later fullfillment for our day ,thats why it is sealed up because the understanding would come about much later in time (in the last days) daniel did not understand what he was writing down but the understanding about the prophcies were for our day.............
    Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: "O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?....Daniel 12;8

    the book of revelation was a unveiling or uncovering about the Lords day. the Lords day began in 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom so that is why the book is called a revelation,John had a vision into the Lords day
     
  4. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    What happened in 1914? I'm not sure specifically what you're talking about. How was his heavenly kingdom established then? Why was 1914 near (Rev. 22:10), to John (AD 65-68)but not (Dan. 12:9) to Daniel (BC 600 or so)?

    Btw, I think Revelation was named after John's statement, "the revelation of Jesus Christ", as a revealing of the true Christ.

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  5. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    according to bible prophecy , cutting a long story short , at the end of the appointed times of the nations (or the gentile times) the throne would be given to the one who had the legal right, and that one was Jesus christ ,the end of the gentile times was 1914 so Jesus was made king in the heavens at this time
    The expression "Gentile Times," or "appointed times of the nations," comes from Jesus’ great prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem. (Luke 21:5-36, King James Version................. the understanding about the prophecies were not sealed up withGods people in these last days, because they have made them known, the start of the gentile times was 607,B.C.E and the end was 1914 .since 607B.C.E There has not been a true king on Jehovahs throne to represent him, but at the end of the gentile times Jesus was installed as King on Gods throne. because he has the legal right

    it will certainly become no [one’s] until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give [it] to him. ezekial 21;27

    (Daniel 7:14) And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin...........

     
  6. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out what significance 1914 had. How did this happen in 1914? Did it have something to do with WW1?

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  7. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy............. yes WW1 had a lot to do with it

    "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress............. matthew 24;7-8



     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    i think the reason that most people are in the dark about this date is because those who are revealing the understanding about bible prophecies in these last days, are not recognized by the mainstream relgions of christendom, and because of this people are in the dark to the understanding of bible prophecy .Jesus said to keep awake and not to fall asleep, so the early bible students as JW were called in earlier times , did not fall asleep but kept awake to the times we live in and to bible prophecy , that is why i have found JW to be very informative about the prophecies in the bible , because they are not in the dark but they are throwing out light and understanding in these last days, even though the mainstream religions do not recognise them , but when we think about it the mainstream religions in Jesus day did not recognize Jesus back in his day either so this is no surprise to JW . So my answer to your question is do what i did and find out what JW are saying about the prophecies in the bible , i had a bible study with them and now i am no longer in the dark , i better stop now other wise i may be told off by moderaters on here :)
     
  9. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    Matthew 24
    16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

    What did WW1 have to do with those in Judea, why not Europe?

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    we must remember that there was a litral fullfilment of Jesus prophecy on Jerusalem in 70 C.E but there is a major fullfillment in our day , in those days the christians were told to flee to the mountains and get out of Jerusalem and then they would be saved , to day it is in a spiritual way that we as christians have to flee to a place of safety and get out of the danger zone , christendom today , claims to represent the God of the bibleto day . but she is unfaithful and not doing the things that she should be ,so she will come to her end, like jerusalem did in those days . but true christians have been getting out of her for ages now to a spiritual place of safety because she will come to her end F alse religion is refered to as babylon the great in revelation 18;4 and true christians are told to get out of her.........
     
  11. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    This deserves a more adequate examination on my part. I'm not a big fan of one liners. :)

    To say that the true Church can apostasize is a contradiction in terms, since the Church is the Body of Christ, those faithful to the Word of God. Do you believe that the Church, the very fruit of the blood of Christ, will fail and be destroyed? On what stronger foundation can God's followers be built?

    There may be those that claim to be Christians, but are not. However, Christianity will never be wiped from the earth.

    If Christ's words were fulfilled in AD70, what rendered that fulfillment inadequate? If we have a covenent of salvation based on the Word and blood of God, what more do we need?

    Take a look at this. It is a portion of John's description of the Holy City, adorned as the Bride of Christ. She is elsewhere referred to as the Church, the Bride of Christ.

    Revelation 21
    24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
    25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
    26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
    27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    Revelation 22
    14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
    15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

    Those liers and false followers of Christ will come to naught. They will not enter the Kingdom of God, but will die outside, the second death.

    Revelation 22
    10And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
    11"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

    A fairly simple statement, does it still apply?

    If the true Church has apostasized, then was Christ's work in vain, that the Lord should again enter into covenent with a harlot? May it never be!

    Babylon refers exclusively to those who spilled the blood of the prophets and the saints (Rev. 16:6, 17:6, 18:20, 24; Cf. Matt. 23:37, Luke 11:49-51, and Acts 7:52), the corrupt religious powers responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, including our own Lord (Revelation 11:8; cf. 17:18, 18:10, 16, 19, 21). There are no other people responsible, and no further fulfillment adequate but that first century event, which served to establish the Kingdom of God and purify his people.

    As Christ said to his disciples, "...these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22) and "this generation will not pass away until all things take place. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. " (Luke 21:31-32). This is what they constantly proclaimed, the immanent end of the age (Matthew 16:27-28, Acts 2:14-18, Romans 16:20, Acts 2:14-18, 1 Corinthians 10:11, James 5: 1,3,8-9, Hebrews 10:37, 1 John 2:18, Jude 1:17-19, Revelation 1:1,3, 3:10-11, 22:6,7,10,12,20).

    The weight of scripture is against a future cataclysm or judgment, for if his words were not completely fulfilled in his own time, then his words failed.

    True Christians do not need to escape apostasy, but have refuge in the Kingdom of God. They need to flee nothing, because their foundation is that of Christ. It's not the Church that's apostasized from Christ, it's men that have turned away from the Kingdom of God and chosen to dwell outside.

    As Paul says,
    Ephesians 3
    20Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,
    21to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

    The ekklesia, or the congregation/assembly, of God was once built after the flesh, an unfaithful bride of an earthly people. However, Christ came and provided the means to purify his people and cut out the wickedness therein, producing the Israel of the spirit, the heavenly nation. This is the new Bride which is wed to Christ and purified through his blood. Never will wickedness enter into his Kingdom, that the sacrifice of his blood should be proven inadequate?

    I have attempted to open mindedly examine your words in light of scripture, and these are some of the things that I cannot reconcile with their testimony.

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes i agree with you that the true church will prevail, but the scriptures say that men among yourselves will currupt the church
    The subtle influence of Greek philosophy was a key factor in the apostasy that followed the death of the apostles

    The apostle Peter counseled: "Beloved ones, . . . I am arousing your clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, that you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles. You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard that you may not be led away with them by the error of the law-defying people and fall from your own steadfastness." Paul clearly counseled: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? . . . ‘"Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves," says Jehovah, "and quit touching the unclean thing"’; ‘"and I will take you in."’"—2 Peter 3:1, 2, 17; 2 Corinthians 6:14-17; Revelation 18:2-5.​

    In spite of this clear admonition, apostate Christians of the second century took on the trappings of the pagan Roman religion. They moved away from their pure Biblical origins and instead clothed themselves with pagan Roman garb and titles and became full of Greek philosophy. but as you say the true followers would prevail

    Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ; ...colossians 2;8

    The immortality of the soul . . . is a pagan philosophical dogma.That "pagan philosophical dogma infiltrated into Christendom’s teaching, even though Christ plainly had no such thought .... but as you say the bride of christ will pevail , the true bride of christ that is. so then who is the faithful ones who have not been misled and have purified themselves it is those who are doing the will of God ...matthew 24;45-47

     
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