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Genesis 8

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Aqualung, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yes. Good points.
     
  2. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the board. Now go here http://www.blackchampagne.com/articles/noahs-ark.shtml then come back and explain how the flood wasn't just a story with a moral.

    B.
     
  3. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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  4. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    Religion:
    Really?
    A "rant"?

    Even if one were to concede that the commentary (in provided link) is, in fact, an anti-biblical "rant"...does citing/labeling such an instance/example as a "rant" answer the credible questions lain resident within, or otherwise validate any insistent claim of a Noachian flood as historical fact?

    If you would care to document your heritaged decendancy from Noah and his subsequent progeny, I'd be interested in your delineated and fact-based evidence as support...my brother.

    I'm still trying to figure out how it is that my ebony "brothers" in Ethiopia look so different from my "brothers" in Japan, and yet conspicuously differentiated from my "brothers" in England. How did such evident physical diversity manifest itself in such a short period of time from such genetically limited and focused "stock"? Where did these unique physical attributes come from, when we supposedly all share the same "parentage"?

    Was Noah and his missus...concomitantly - black, brown, yellow, and white...all mixed into "one"? If so, then why do progeny of two "white" parents today manifest similar physical traits of their parents (ie., phylogeny vs. ontogeny)? Are we to conclude that differing physical/racial traits were "random" in occurance after "the Flood", or are these "biblically undocumented" results that have no direct historical reference/account in Scripture?

    If I am to accept that I am a direct descendant of Noah and his own progeny, please explain and document by scientific methodology why it is that I bear no "middle-eastern" physical characteristics or traits.

    Or...what Scipturally outlined/defined process allows me to look sooo different from my "natural" ancestors? If such an altered appearance was divinely "miraculous" in nature/intent, then what Scripture suggests that such a "purposed" manifestation is a result of God's will? How is it that I am sooo "White", while my Ethiopian "brothers" are sooo "Black"? Does the Bible lend any insight/answer into this realized and stark contrast, "post-flood"? Any at all? How many generations of offspring does it require to generate such divergently differentiated physical attributes? 10? 100? 1000? What does the Bible offer as proffered "truth" in answer?
     
  5. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Aren't any of the dissenters going to throw in the story of Gilgamesh while they are at it?

    I think the study of Noah has everything to do with a morality tale and nothing to do with an historical record of our ancient history. And this coming from a christian.
     
  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I am astounded at your lack of understanding of genetics.

    When working, I was once asked by an English girl where I was born; when i told her I was born in Africa, she looked extremely puzzeled, and finally asked why I wasn't black..........After a few minutes someone told her that my parents were white, to which she replied "But, surely he would still have been born black, because he was born there"....another chum then told her that my parents had dropped me into a bath of Bleach, to rectify the problem.

    The girl will now be a woman; I wonder if she still believes the 'bleach' story.........:biglaugh:
     
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Will this happen in your lifetime?
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the signs are all here , that the attitudes of the people around now are the same as in Noahs day ,i think we are living within a crooked generation of people
    (Philippians 2:15) that YOU may come to be blameless and innocent, children of God without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation, among whom YOU are shining as illuminators in the world ..... noah was a rightous man doing the will of God and he was obedient to the instructions from God , he lived among a generation of people with bad attitudes and he was the only one with his family that listened to God so as to be saved . the time is very near now when the great tribulation will break out, but are we ready and do we recogonize the place of safety like Noah did, or do we refuse to believe that the great tribulation will come ,and not listen to the ones that Jehovah God is using:)

     
  9. s2a

    s2a Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator

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    Religion:
    Really?
    I'm crushed that you might believe that to be true...

    I guess I have to be serious all the time, or never at all. *sigh*

    [Shot you a PM on this...;-)]
     
  10. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy Well-Known Member

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    It takes about 20,000 years for environmental factors to turn black people white or vice versa.

    Discovery Channel is available on basic cable folks, and it might amaze you how wide the real world is when you allow geneticists, historians, archeaologists and other pesky scientist types to educate you.

    And I have been told by Young Earth Evangelicals that there was only one race after the time of Noah, but then upon the attempted reaching of Heaven by building a tower, God caused all the people of Earth to have different races and languages.

    Leave it to them to come up with a convenient miracle to explain away that which science proves false.

    B.
     
  11. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    But only a few generations if they intermarry with white people...
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    As I have to yours. Apologies, Sir!;)
     
  13. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    There's not much that I can comment upon with reference to the Flood. Since there's really not much of a historical record, though I've heard that many early cultures had traditions of a great flood, even while being isolated geographically from one another. I don't remember the source, though, so take it at face value.

    It's often possible to isolate minor desireable traits in a species within a few generations. With selective breeding, would it be impossible to develope the diversity of the human populace, even after 10-20,000 years?

    Please examine this statement in light of Christ's warning to his disciples in Luke 21:8. An interesting note on your comments about Noah's generation and the present one is that, when the New Testament authors referred to any "wicked generation", they always referred to their own, first-century generation.

    Are the signs really present? What about Joel?

    Joel 2
    28"It will come about after this
    That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
    And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    Your old men will dream dreams,
    Your young men will see visions.
    29"Even on the male and female servants
    I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

    God would pour out his spirit in the last days. God poured out his spirit in the first century (Acts 2:1-4,14-18). The last days occured in the first century.
    Christ said that the gospel would be proclaimed in all the world, and then the end would come. Paul says that this was accomplished (Romans 1:8, 10:18, Colossians 1:6, 23). Did the end come?
    Check out Revelation 1:9, as well, in which John refers to himself as a fellow partaker in the tribulation.

    The end came in the first century, though not as an end of time or destruction of the world, but as an end to the carnal nation of Israel as God's chosen people and an end to the Law of sin and death. It was the end of the old covenent and the begining of the new. The Lord honors his word, and will never again destroy all flesh as he has done.

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes there was a litral tribulation back then , but there is a greater fullfillment for our day , that is why Jesus said that there will be a great tribulation
    for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. matthew 24; 21; the flood of noahs day parralels our day , there is a warning going on , just as noah warned others about the world wide flood and there was a place of safety to survive it ,but most refused to listen to that warning, they just carried on with what ever they were doing .so today the great tribulation will happen even if people do not take heed of the warning . and there is a global warning going on along with Good news that we can survive this great tribulation if we heed the warnings being given the reason only noah and his family survived was because they were the only ones that heed the instructions from God , they were obedient to the instructions given to them, yes we live amongst a wicked generation of people who do not listen to instructions from God

    Some two decades after the tribulation on Jerusalem, the apostle John wrote the book of Revelation. It confirmed that great tribulation lay ahead

    The opening phase of this tribulation will be an attack on a symbolic prostitute called "Babylon the Great." (Revelation 14:8; 17:1, 2) She represents the worldwide empire of false religion, with Christendom being most reprehensible. so just as Jerusalem was destroyed back in the first century the ones who heeded instructions got away safe ,so in our day those who heed instructions will get away safe

    According to the words of Revelation 17:16-18, God will put it into the heart of the political element to attack this symbolic harlot that is why Gods people are told to get out of her , so they do not recieve her plagues

    And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues revelation 18;4

    For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be matthew 24 37-39 the genisis acount has great significanse for us in these days and some people dont even recognize Genesis in fact they dismiss it and cast it away from them

     
  15. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    Is there any reason that this was not fulfilled? After all, the whole of the olivet discourse is focused on the lives of Christ's apostles and the destruction of Jerusalem.

    "This generation shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes that generation of unbelievers did pass away only those who listened to instructions went to the mountains , and stayed there ,were saved, today true christians are told to get out of false religion because it is going to be destroyed by God. false religion is (babylon the great )spoken of in revelation 18;4 so just as the litral jerusalem had to be judged by God, its the same today those who cling to those claiming to represent God but really they are unfaithful to God , they will go down false religion will come to its end and it will be God who will do this
     
  17. Shaggy Flasko

    Shaggy Flasko Member

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    If that's the case, then Christ's words were fulfilled.

    Is there scriptural support for this?

    Was not Babylong the Great Jerusalem herself? Who else is the great city where our Lord was crucified (Revelation 11:8; cf. 17:18, 18:10, 16, 19, 21), and who killed the prophets and the saints (Rev. 16:6, 17:6, 18:20, 24; Cf. Matt. 23:37) and Acts 7:52)?

    There is no scripture that points toward a future, apocalyptic destruction of the globe. This idea has been constructed from a misunderstanding of Christ's words and a neglect of audience relevance. Christ and the apostles' statements of the end times always had exclusive significance to their own day. The whole focus was upon Christ's defeat of sin and death through the fulfillment of the whole Law, including God's judgment on the apostate nation.


    It's true that false religion will be judged and destroyed, but that wasn't the point of the Biblical end times or the Revelation of Christ. After all, Revelation teaches that wickedness and earthly nations will continue to exist outside the New Jerusalem (the Church).

    Revelation 21
    24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
    25In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
    26and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
    27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    Revelation 22
    15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

    I agree that they will never prevail against God's kingdom. However, it will not be in a future apocalypse that they are conquered, because that has already happened. They will simply reside outside the gates of the New Jerusalem until physical death and then come to nought.

    The earth, and Christ's kingdom, will not be destroyed.

    God bless.
    -Bill
     
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  18. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Fair comment, but you don't know He doesn't exist 'beyond reasonable doubt'. You need absolute faith to be an atheist.

    I have always contended that it is the toughest religion to believe in. Atheism has no Bible, it has no evidence, and it has no priests. So to believe in it so vehemently needs a stronger faith than I think I would be able to muster. I envy you.
     
  19. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    who do you include in this list?
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the most guilty of the lot is the religious leaders of christendom .but babylon the great includes all of the world empire of false religion in other words any religion tht has its roots in babylonish teachings. christendom is most guilty because she claims to represent the God of the bible but infact is unfaithful to the teachings of Jesus. but there are ones who have seperated thenselves from Babylon the great and they have allowed themselves to be taught by Jehovah God and Jesus christ
     
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