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Genesis 44:5 and 15

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Why was joseph using divination in Genesis 44:5 and Genesis 44:15?When in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 it says divination is wrong?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Why was joseph using divination in Genesis 44:5 and Genesis 44:15?When in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 it says divination is wrong?
... are you sure that what Joseph was doing was divination?

According to the story... Joseph was special, I've mentioned it before. It's similar in scope ( not in function ) to Moses. Moses was special in his own way ( arguably the greatest prophet that ever graced G-d's green earth.. ) But Joseph was special too. He was able to stay pure in spite of his intimate contact with the unHoly nation of Egypt.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Why was joseph using divination in Genesis 44:5 and Genesis 44:15?When in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 it says divination is wrong?
Hey @Frank Goad , hope you’re well!

@dybmh gave a good answer!

Here’s something else to compare: in Exodus 7, when Moses threw down his staff and it became a snake....he knew what was going to happen, right? That Jehovah was backing him, right?

But Pharaoh’s magic priests did the same thing!
But who was backing them?
You know the answer.

Today, Jehovah backs no one, by such means.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Why was joseph using divination in Genesis 44:5 and Genesis 44:15?When in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 it says divination is wrong?

Genesis 44:5...
"Is not this what my master drinks from and uses to read omens expertly? It is a wicked thing you have done.’"

44:15..."Joseph said to them: “What is this deed that you have done? Did you not know that a man like me can expertly read omens?”

First of all, Joseph lived at a time before Israel went in to slavery in Egypt, which makes that a time before God's law was written and before God accepted Israel as his nation. That came after their release.

Joseph's being taken as a slave to Egypt was actually to preserve the family line of Abraham. Joseph only realized this when his brothers had proven that they had repented of their misdeed in selling him to the Ishmaelites.


So, what is the context of this conversation?

Joseph was in the process of testing his brothers. He was presenting himself as completely Egyptian and did nothing to give himself away too soon.

In verse 5 he states that his Master read omens from this cup.
And in verse 15 you can see that he did not admit to reading omens himself but referred to "a man like me".

As @dybmh has said...Joseph was special...chosen for a crucial role in the preservation of God's people according to his promise to Abraham.

There was at that time no law written against it, but still Joseph kept himself to pure worship in the midst of an empire steeped in false worship.
 
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Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
It should be considered that Joseph did 'divine', only with the true God. God did give Joseph dreams and visions. It was this ability that got him out of prison and promoted to 2nd only to Pharaoah. (Gen. 41:40)

The Egyptians were not believers in the God of Joseph, but they recognized that Joseph had the Spirit of God. (Gen. 41:38-39) So it was only natural that he would be considered to 'divine'. And, he no doubt used the cup for that purpose as that was accepted in Egypt.

But remember too, that Joseph was given a wife of a foreign faith. (Gen. 41:45) And she was a daughter of a priest. Plus Joseph was given an Egyptian name. None of which would later be considered a good thing if it occurred. But at this time as
Deeje pointed out, there was no complete revelation given to the Israelites.

My point is this. Just as later the priest in Israel would use Urim as a means of revealing His will, (Ex. 28:30), (1 Sam. 28:6), or the casting of lots, (Lev. 16:8), God could just as easily use the cup or cups for Joseph. The difference being, the one who was divining was a believer in the true God, and the true God was being sought.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 
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