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Genesis 3

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Mister Emu, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    I believe that genesis three is a historical account of how sin entered the world. The serpent(which may or may not be Satan, some things point towards this, some towards it just being a reptile) seduced Eve into eating the fruit, Eve followed suit and brought Adam into it ( :tsk: women this be a lesson, your man will follow you anywhere you lead, don't abuse it :p :D).

    After eating of the fruit, they had "the knowledge of good and evil", which I believe may be a conscience(now I do not know if the fruit itself bestowed the knowledge, or if God imbued them with it once the fruit was ate).

    They were then cast out of the garden, and now it is guarded by Cherubim, and a flaming sword.
     
  2. Jensen

    Jensen Active Member

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    Isn't it possible that the serpent, tree, and it's fruit were just a symbolic way of telling the story of how sin entered into the world?

    I think that to sin or not to sin, is a choice that we make because of free will. And maybe the inability to resist the temptations even though we know we should. I'm not so sure there is an actual supernatural being that tempts us to follow him and sin. But that satan is only a personification of our sins. and not an actual being, being that satan mean opposer.
     
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this.... it's figurative language, but I do believe it does speak towards a literal reality.
     
  4. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Possible, but I see no reason to believe so.

    I agree.

     
  5. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Mr Emu, geographically speaking where was the garden of edan? I ask because it would be a place by your explaination that man could not travel to on this planet. What does cheribum look like and what kind of tree was it?
     
  6. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yay! Genesis 3 finally came!

    I think the serpent was satan, not just some creature. I don't think that any creature has the ability to tempt humans, but that only satan has the knowledge, ability, and desire to do this.

    Eating of the fruit was one of the most important and, dare I say, beneficial, thing that could have happened to us. Without having done so, we could not progress in this life by having to live by faith. I know that a Jehovah's Witness would probably beleive exaclty the opposite, that having done so had no good consequence (and perhaps lots of other denominations, but I just don't know it yet. I'm pretty good with the Jehovah's witness beleifs, but little else), so I hope one comes in to give his view, too, but I think it was a very important thing to have happend. Without evil one cannot know good; without sorrow, one cannot know joy; without the knowledge of these things, one cannot progress.

    This Mormon KJV of the Bible that I have has a Bible Dictionairy in the back, with some good explanations of the Mormon view of things. Appearantly, Latter-Day revelation places the Garden of Eden on what is now North America. I don't remember the missionairies ever telling me that, and I just discovered that now . . .
     
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  7. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    I think Genesis 3 is just a figurative way of explaining how human species advanced further than the contemporary all other living creatures, in the way that human being developed the power to reason, to think, to plan, to be selfish, to be egoistic, to be able to laugh, to cry, to be happy to be angry etc, and to be able to question about life. All other animals and plants just moved to continue to propagate the own species, evolved to continue to survive to pass down the gene, without knowing or without any conscious of the reason for being alive.
    So learning that you exist is a sin. If you remain the mentallity of the animal, then you will not know what is sin.
     
  8. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    No idea.

    I believe that the world was drastacly(sp) changed by the flood. Modern day geography is not the same as pre-flood era.

    Never seen one, and obviously I do not know, as there was only one and it is in the garden of eden.

    Sorry for the wait, I am a forgetful person :(

    Hmm, if it were satan, than why would all the future serpents be punished for satan's acts?

    I must disagree here with you. The eating of the fruit sent countless numbers of humans to an eternal lake of fire, no good can compare to this atrocity.

    This is true, the fruit was of the knowledge of both good and evil, as it is impossible to have one without the other.
     
  9. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the tree of the knowledge of good and bad symbolized God’s prerogative to set the standards for man as to what is approved or what is condemned. By refusing to obey God’s law, man was calling into question God’s very right to rule over him. Jehovah justly answered the challenge by allowing man to rule himself. Wouldn’t you agree that the results have been disastrous?—Deuteronomy 32:5; Ecclesiastes 8:9.




    That is why the Bible’s theme, God’s Kingdom, brings so much hope. By means of that Kingdom, Jehovah promises to end oppressive man-rule soon and replace it with His rule—a government that will restore an earthly paradise—something Adam and Eve forfeited.—Psalm 37:29; Daniel 2:44

     
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  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    In answer to where was the garden of Eden, Geographically, I came accross this 'interesting article'

    The Garden of Eden

    The location of the Garden of Eden is unknown. But there are many theories. The below passage from the Book of Genesis tells us that: (1) the Garden of Eden contained the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, (2) a river flowed through Eden and split into four rivers: the Tigris, Euphrates, Pison (or Pishon) and Gihon.

    Though not specifically stated, it is assumed that the Garden of Eden was destroyed by The Flood, in which case the rivers now called the Tigris and Euphrates (in Iraq) would be new rivers in a new location. Most theorists place the Garden of Eden generally in the Middle East or specifically in Ancient Mesopotamia. Other locations have also been proposed, including Ethiopia, Java, the Seychelles, and Florida. Many theologians believe the Garden of Eden did not have a physical existence on Earth: it was an adjunct to heaven and became identified with the concept of Paradise.

    See references in Gothein's History of Garden Art and Turner's English Garden Design. And see notes on Persian Paradise Garden and Hanging Gardens of Babylon.

    The Bible, Genesis Chapter 2, verses 7 to 17

    7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    8: And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    9: And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    10: And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
    11: The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
    12: And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
    13: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
    14: And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
    15: And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    16: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Source:- www.gardenvisit.com/in/garden_...

    I thinkthat I agree with mr Emu; if there ever was a geographicall location - that area where the Garden of Eden might have been located, may well now lie at the bottom of an ocean, 'Scrunched up' as part of a mountain (because of tectonic plate movement).

    I tend to think thatb this is all figurative though. The main reason being that, in the garden of Eden, every being lived in perfect harmony - there was no evil - only purity.

    Therefore, if there were lions, tigers and other beasts, on what did they feed ? - I can't see them feeding off other beings, because that would not have fitted in with the 'perfection' idea of the garden of Eden.:)
     
  11. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    I remember we were doing a torah study trying to figure out the meaning behind this and we had a different opinion come up that had never occured to me...
    The Tree of Knowledge...is the Torah. The Torah is often referred to as a tree of knowledge, so it could be that the Torah and the Ark was in Gan Eden with Adam and Eve. There is some reference in the Torah that when a human being came into direct contact w/ the Ark that they would die, and what does HaShem tell them will happen if they partake of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? "You will surely die".

    just a perspective that was brought up...take as you will...
     
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  12. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Hmm, so is the tree of knowledge the Torah, or the Ark? Or were both together?
     
  13. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    i think the tree, in this particular perspective, was the Torah, but i remember incidents where if someone touched the Ark in which it was carried in they died.
    So it may be, in this particular perspective, that Eve came across the Ark of the Testimony which had the Torah in it and read from the Torah, gaining the Divine knowledge from it.
    Perhaps because Eve and Adam were already immortals reading from it simply made them mortal beings, knocking them down a peg.

    But again, Torah scholars of higher education and wisdom than i have spent lifetimes disecting these first opening sections of Genesis.
     
  14. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    That's okay. :)

    I never thought of that before.

    Good can compare to this atrocity. If Adam and Even hadn't partaken of that fruit, we would not be alive. No one knows how long they were in the garden, but they never had children. They didn't know they were naked, they weren't ashamed, so they didn't know of the power of thier anatomy. The first thing they did when they left the garden was have children. We would never have been able to gain a physical body and progress by faith without this transgression. It was a necessary thing. Sure, some people may be lead astray, and that's a definite bad thing, but we needed to be able to come to earth and be tried before we could progress, and progression is God's plan for us.
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Appearantly, meat eating wasn't the standard back then. I don't know where I read this, but it was probably in a Watchtower magazine, complete with Biblical references and things, but in the Garden of Eden days, nothing even had to eat meat. Everyting could survive on plants. Obviously, that all changed, but once God's kingdom is restored, it will go back to that way. I'm sorry I don't have the sorce of that, but I definitely remember having read that at one point.
     
  16. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    If you look at the eden account you will see that God said in 2:16 that "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden," then in the next verse "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[a] of it you shall surely die."

    So using your reasoning, if the tree of knowledge was the ark that would mean that all the other trees were arks, too as they are all called trees.

    Look at 3:6 "The woman saw that the tree was good for food, and pleasing to the eyes, and could fill the desire of making one wise. So she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband, and he ate."

    There is no mention or hint that it may be symbolic of the ark. Besides, the ark or the torah weren't around at the time of eden.

    As as to the identity of the serpent, Revelation 12:9
    The great dragon was hurled down— that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
     
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  17. ThisShouldMakeSense

    ThisShouldMakeSense Active Member

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    Please bear in mind my previous post too...anyhow, good question. i've wondered about that. why punish all snakes? well, do you think a snake would understand what God was saying to him? so, what is more likely is that God realised who was behind the serpent and was really speaking to him. that one being satan. Look at revelation 12:9.
    so when he said he would crawl on his belly and eat dust, the serpent could have thought 'wahey, call that a punishment?! i already do that! cool, i got away with it!!'
    so i reality, it was God telling satan that he would become the lowest of the low, and would be removed from the source of true spitual food, and eat 'dust'. which happened when he was cast of of heaven in revelation. by the way, it's interesting to note that the devil was cast out of heaven and wasn't in 'hell', but that's for another thread...
     
  18. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    As a matter of fact, the first animal was slain by God to make a covering for Adam and Eve, because they had eaten from the forbidden tree and then realized they were naked.

    Sabio
     
  19. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    and yet traditional judaism holds that even the patriarchs had access to the Torah, long before it was given at Sinai.

    again it's just one of many theories on the the meaning behind the opening words of Genesis
     
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Here. I thought of an idea for the serpent thing. As I said before, I believe that the serpent was the devil, not just a snake, and then I was asked (forgive me, but for the life of me I cannot remember who asked it, and it's late, so I can't remember too well) why did God curse the serpent? Here's how. The serpent can't really think on any sort of higher level or anything of that nature. So, it doesn't know it's being cursed, it doesn't feel bad about having to go around on its belling, and all that. It's just a snake. But, now that that has happened, the symbol of the serpent and of the man is a type of Jesus and Satan. Since Satan used a serpent to tempt Eve, God used this serpent imagery to set up a type of his plan of salvation from the very beginning.
     
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