Genesis 18:10

[Agnostisch]

וַיֹּ֗אמֶר שׁ֣וֹב אָשׁ֤וּב אֵלֶ֙יךָ֙ כָּעֵ֣ת חַיָּ֔ה וְהִנֵּה־ בֵ֖ן לְשָׂרָ֣ה אִשְׁתֶּ֑ךָ וְשָׂרָ֥ה שֹׁמַ֛עַת פֶּ֥תַח הָאֹ֖הֶל וְה֥וּא אַחֲרָֽיו׃

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

What is the physical positioning of Sarah, Abraham, the tent opening, and the tent in this description? Is Sarah on the outside secretly listening in on a conversation happening inside the tent with Abraham on the other side of the tent flap?

 

[Mitty]

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

What is the physical positioning of Sarah, Abraham, the tent opening, and the tent in this description? Is Sarah on the outside secretly listening in on a conversation happening inside the tent with Abraham on the other side of the tent flap?

Even though Abraham's god was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god, why did it need to discuss the number of righteous children in Gomorrah with Abraham when they shared a non-kosher meal together anyway, given that the god then walked down to Gomorrah to count them for itself?

 

[dybmh]

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

From Rashi on the verse: ( link - sefaria.org )

" כעת חיה means at this time next year — it was the Passover, and on the next Passover Isaac was born — since we do not read כְּעֵת (at “a” time) but כָּעֵת (at this time). The words כעת חיה signify: at this time when there will be life to you — when you will all be healthy and alive."

What is the physical positioning of Sarah, Abraham, the tent opening, and the tent in this description? Is Sarah on the outside secretly listening in on a conversation happening inside the tent with Abraham on the other side of the tent flap?

The JPS translation on Sefaria puts Sarah in the tent, she was preparing food per verse 6. Abraham and the Angels are outside under a tree, verse 8. Was she secretly listening, or did the Angel of G-d speak loudly? Was she listening for further requests for assistance from Abraham? It's a mystery

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis notes that the phrase occurs only here and in 2 Kings 4:16, and that "its exact meaning is uncertain."

Robert Alter renders it as "at this very season" while Everett Fox suggests "when time revives: an idiom for 'next year'."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Even though Abraham's god was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god, why did it need to discuss the number of righteous children in Gomorrah with Abraham when they shared a non-kosher meal together anyway, given that the god then walked down to Gomorrah to count them for itself?

Please be aware that this thread is in the Judaism DIR.

 

[Agnostisch]

From Rashi on the verse: ( link - sefaria.org )

" כעת חיה means at this time next year — it was the Passover, and on the next Passover Isaac was born — since we do not read כְּעֵת (at “a” time) but כָּעֵת (at this time). The words כעת חיה signify: at this time when there will be life to you — when you will all be healthy and alive."

Considering the context it must mean "later". Unless it's Abraham saying this.
But what about the שוב אשוב אליך? Why does he say he'll come back (which we know they don't)? They don't have to return for Sara to have a son. Also, he says it in the singular while there are three of them. I wonder whether perhaps not the guest says שוב אשוב אליך but rather Abraham, meaning that he'll go fetch Sara, and then כעת חיה could mean "right away". If the verse were ended after כעת חיה and the rest was in a new verse, we could understand it that way.

 

[Agnostisch]

The JPS translation on Sefaria puts Sarah in the tent, she was preparing food per verse 6. Abraham and the Angels are outside under a tree, verse 8. Was she secretly listening, or did the Angel of G-d speak loudly? Was she listening for further requests for assistance from Abraham? It's a mystery

Thanks for this clarification. What then do you understand from והוא אחריו? Is it trying to say that Abraham's back was to the tent, and Sarah heard the words clearly because they were directed towards Abraham?

 

[dybmh]

But what about the שוב אשוב אליך?

What then do you understand from והוא אחריו?

I don't mind continuing to copy/paste from sefaria, but, both of these are discussed in English on sefaria.org. Sefaria is wonderful for researching Jewish sources. If the question is about a specific verse, I search google for "sefaria " + the verse in question. In this case it was "sefaria Genesis 18:10". From sefaria, the resources tab auto-opens when the verse is selected ( it becomes highlighted in grey ). Each of the resources that is translated into English is labeled EN. I often browse through all the English resources when researching a verse or a set of verses.

If all of that makes sense, in the resources on sefaria, an answer to your first question is displayed by clicking on Ramban, and an answer to your 2nd question is provided by Sforno.

Have fun

 

[Tumah]

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

It seems to have been parlance of the time that meant "like this time next year".
Machberes Menachem also points to 1 Sam. 25:6 כה לחי as a blessing that means "it should be like this next year as well".

What is the physical positioning of Sarah, Abraham, the tent opening, and the tent in this description? Is Sarah on the outside secretly listening in on a conversation happening inside the tent with Abraham on the other side of the tent flap?

Abraham is outside the tent with the three angels. Sarah is inside the tent

Considering the context it must mean "later". Unless it's Abraham saying this.
But what about the שוב אשוב אליך? Why does he say he'll come back (which we know they don't)? They don't have to return for Sara to have a son. Also, he says it in the singular while there are three of them. I wonder whether perhaps not the guest says שוב אשוב אליך but rather Abraham, meaning that he'll go fetch Sara, and then כעת חיה could mean "right away". If the verse were ended after כעת חיה and the rest was in a new verse, we could understand it that way.

That reading would make the narrative kind of choppy. Also שוב אשוב אליך doesn't have the implication of fetching someone, so why use this phrase?

 

[dybmh]

" כעת חיה means at this time next year — it was the Passover, and on the next Passover Isaac was born — since we do not read כְּעֵת (at “a” time) but כָּעֵת (at this time). The words כעת חיה signify: at this time when there will be life to you — when you will all be healthy and alive."

Regarding Abraham and Passover:

Something concrete that supports this can be seen looking at the last Hebrew word in verse 6, עֻגֽוֹת ( cakes ). It's the same word used to describe Matza in Exo 12:39.

Here's Gen 18:6

:וַיְמַהֵ֧ר אַבְרָהָ֛ם הָאֹ֖הֱלָה אֶל־שָׂרָ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר מַֽהֲרִ֞י שְׁל֤שׁ סְאִים֙ קֶ֣מַח סֹ֔לֶת ל֖וּשִׁי וַֽעֲשִׂ֥י עֻגֽוֹת

And Abraham hastened to the tent to Sarah, and he said, "Hasten three seah of meal [and] fine flour; knead and make cakes.

Here's Exo 12:39

וַיֹּאפ֨וּ אֶת־הַבָּצֵ֜ק אֲשֶׁ֨ר הוֹצִ֧יאוּ מִמִּצְרַ֛יִם עֻגֹ֥ת מַצּ֖וֹת כִּ֣י לֹ֣א חָמֵ֑ץ כִּי־גֹֽרְשׁ֣וּ מִמִּצְרַ֗יִם וְלֹ֤א יָֽכְלוּ֙ לְהִתְמַהְמֵ֔הַּ וְגַם־צֵדָ֖ה לֹֽא־עָשׂ֥וּ לָהֶֽם

They baked the dough that they had taken out of Egypt as unleavened cakes, for it had not leavened, for they were driven out of Egypt, and they could not tarry, and also, they had not made provisions for themselves.

 

[Jake1001]

What does כעת חיה mean? Next time? Next year? An appropriate time? What is the structure: a noun and an adjective or two nouns?

What is the physical positioning of Sarah, Abraham, the tent opening, and the tent in this description? Is Sarah on the outside secretly listening in on a conversation happening inside the tent with Abraham on the other side of the tent flap?

One of my fav sections Agnosh !

 

[Jake1001]

Regarding Abraham and Passover:

Something concrete that supports this can be seen looking at the last Hebrew word in verse 6, עֻגֽוֹת ( cakes ). It's the same word used to describe Matza in Exo 12:39.

Here's Gen 18:6

:וַיְמַהֵ֧ר אַבְרָהָ֛ם הָאֹ֖הֱלָה אֶל־שָׂרָ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר מַֽהֲרִ֞י שְׁל֤שׁ סְאִים֙ קֶ֣מַח סֹ֔לֶת ל֖וּשִׁי וַֽעֲשִׂ֥י עֻגֽוֹת

And Abraham hastened to the tent to Sarah, and he said, "Hasten three seah of meal [and] fine flour; knead and make cakes.

Here's Exo 12:39

וַיֹּאפ֨וּ אֶת־הַבָּצֵ֜ק אֲשֶׁ֨ר הוֹצִ֧יאוּ מִמִּצְרַ֛יִם עֻגֹ֥ת מַצּ֖וֹת כִּ֣י לֹ֣א חָמֵ֑ץ כִּי־גֹֽרְשׁ֣וּ מִמִּצְרַ֗יִם וְלֹ֤א יָֽכְלוּ֙ לְהִתְמַהְמֵ֔הַּ וְגַם־צֵדָ֖ה לֹֽא־עָשׂ֥וּ לָהֶֽם

They baked the dough that they had taken out of Egypt as unleavened cakes, for it had not leavened, for they were driven out of Egypt, and they could not tarry, and also, they had not made provisions for themselves.

I love this stuff !! Why not a pastrami sandwich ! Food is always part of the solution in OT times !! Where’s Harel when I need him ?

 

[dybmh]

I love this stuff !! Why not a pastrami sandwich ! Food is always part of the solution in OT times !! Where’s Harel when I need him ?

The Kosher Reuben... oooooooh-yeah....

hyperlink >>> jewishjournal.com - A ‘Shark Tank’ Win for Local Resident’s Vegan Corned Beef