gnostic
The Lost One
i have not created a thread in weeks, so here goes.
In Genesis 10, the narratives claimed that many of the cities and kingdoms didn’t exist until after the flood, narrated in the earlier chapters Genesis 6, 7 & 8. Genesis 10 supposedly claimed that many nations and cities were created by children and grandchildren of the 3 sons of Noah.
The most prominent examples are that of Ham’ children particularly Mizraim which is the Hebrew name for Egypt, and Nimrod, who supposedly started up the cities in Babylonia (Shinar) and in Assyria:
Now I don’t know anything about the last two - Rehoboth-ir and Resen, because there are historical records or archaeological evidences that these two existed, other than in the Bible and extra-biblical literature, so I am going to assume they don’t exist.
But the others mentioned, as well as Egypt, well...they disprove Genesis 10 as being “history”. It would also mean, that Genesis was written in the Bronze Age (3rd and 2nd millennia BCE), but in the Iron Age, most likely after the 8th century BCE.
If my calculations are correct, Noah’s Flood would be set around 2400-2300 BCE...depending on you would interpret Exodus 12:40.
The problems with that date, is that Egypt, Erech (or more precisely Uruk or Unung) and Nineveh predated 2400 BCE.
Even the pyramids of Giza (4th dynasty), and earlier pyramids in Saqqara (eg the Step Pyramid of Djoser, 3rd dynasty) all predated 2400 BCE. Older royal burial site, like the 2nd dynasty, are mostly have kings entombed at Abydos.
But Egyptian culture evolved much further back, even before the first dynasty in 3100 BCE, the prehistoric period, when Egypt was divided as two kingdoms. Some of the artifacts discovered were still “Egyptian” in the Predynastic period (4000- 3100 BCE).
Nineveh was first built in 3500 BCE, so it would also predate the Flood.
The original Babylon is difficult to date, but it was a minor town in Sargon’s time, and only became a prominent city and capital of Babylonia, during the 19th century BCE and later.
Akkad is found in historical accounts, however the city has never been located. Sargon the Great started the Akkadian dynasty in Sumer, and expanded his empire to include all of Sumer as well as Assyria; Sargon was either born at Akkad or he founded the city himself. But with the location of Akkad unknown, it is not possible to date the city.
But Uruk or Erech has even older history. Like Jericho, Uruk was a city where people of different periods built settlements, on top of older settlements, so it’s history - the original settlement - go back as far as 5000 BCE. Each layers are preserved, like a time capsule, where you can date each layer to certain period. Uruk didn’t become important until 4000 BCE, and it thrive and prosper throughout the 4th millennium BCE, peak from 3600 to 3100 bce. By 3100 bce, other Sumerian cities began to thrive...until Sargon started up the Akkadian empire, conquering all Sumerian cities, including Uruk and Ur.
Ur isn’t mentioned in Genesis 10, but it too has a long history, originally built around 4000 to 3800 BCE. But Ur is mentioned in Genesis 11 as a city that Abraham was born in. The problem with Genesis Ur is that it mentioned “Chaldean”.
Chaldea didn’t exist until early 1st millennium BCE.
Lastly the Assyrian city of Calah, or more precisely Kalhu, wasn’t built until the reign of the Assyrian king Shalmaneser I (1274 - 1245 BCE).
Now unless Nimrod have lived a couple of thousands of years, he couldn’t have built both Uruk (Erech) and Kalhu (Calah).
Does anyone dispute what I have written?
In Genesis 10, the narratives claimed that many of the cities and kingdoms didn’t exist until after the flood, narrated in the earlier chapters Genesis 6, 7 & 8. Genesis 10 supposedly claimed that many nations and cities were created by children and grandchildren of the 3 sons of Noah.
The most prominent examples are that of Ham’ children particularly Mizraim which is the Hebrew name for Egypt, and Nimrod, who supposedly started up the cities in Babylonia (Shinar) and in Assyria:
- Erech (Uruk),
- Accad (Akkad),
- Babylon,
- Nineveh,
- Calah,
- Rehoboth-ir,
- and Resen.
Now I don’t know anything about the last two - Rehoboth-ir and Resen, because there are historical records or archaeological evidences that these two existed, other than in the Bible and extra-biblical literature, so I am going to assume they don’t exist.
But the others mentioned, as well as Egypt, well...they disprove Genesis 10 as being “history”. It would also mean, that Genesis was written in the Bronze Age (3rd and 2nd millennia BCE), but in the Iron Age, most likely after the 8th century BCE.
If my calculations are correct, Noah’s Flood would be set around 2400-2300 BCE...depending on you would interpret Exodus 12:40.
The problems with that date, is that Egypt, Erech (or more precisely Uruk or Unung) and Nineveh predated 2400 BCE.
Even the pyramids of Giza (4th dynasty), and earlier pyramids in Saqqara (eg the Step Pyramid of Djoser, 3rd dynasty) all predated 2400 BCE. Older royal burial site, like the 2nd dynasty, are mostly have kings entombed at Abydos.
But Egyptian culture evolved much further back, even before the first dynasty in 3100 BCE, the prehistoric period, when Egypt was divided as two kingdoms. Some of the artifacts discovered were still “Egyptian” in the Predynastic period (4000- 3100 BCE).
Nineveh was first built in 3500 BCE, so it would also predate the Flood.
The original Babylon is difficult to date, but it was a minor town in Sargon’s time, and only became a prominent city and capital of Babylonia, during the 19th century BCE and later.
Akkad is found in historical accounts, however the city has never been located. Sargon the Great started the Akkadian dynasty in Sumer, and expanded his empire to include all of Sumer as well as Assyria; Sargon was either born at Akkad or he founded the city himself. But with the location of Akkad unknown, it is not possible to date the city.
But Uruk or Erech has even older history. Like Jericho, Uruk was a city where people of different periods built settlements, on top of older settlements, so it’s history - the original settlement - go back as far as 5000 BCE. Each layers are preserved, like a time capsule, where you can date each layer to certain period. Uruk didn’t become important until 4000 BCE, and it thrive and prosper throughout the 4th millennium BCE, peak from 3600 to 3100 bce. By 3100 bce, other Sumerian cities began to thrive...until Sargon started up the Akkadian empire, conquering all Sumerian cities, including Uruk and Ur.
Ur isn’t mentioned in Genesis 10, but it too has a long history, originally built around 4000 to 3800 BCE. But Ur is mentioned in Genesis 11 as a city that Abraham was born in. The problem with Genesis Ur is that it mentioned “Chaldean”.
Chaldea didn’t exist until early 1st millennium BCE.
Lastly the Assyrian city of Calah, or more precisely Kalhu, wasn’t built until the reign of the Assyrian king Shalmaneser I (1274 - 1245 BCE).
Now unless Nimrod have lived a couple of thousands of years, he couldn’t have built both Uruk (Erech) and Kalhu (Calah).
Does anyone dispute what I have written?
