Genesis 1:27

[Deut 13:1]

jonny: Let me look up what Rashi and the other main sages have to say, I have an idea of what it will be, but I rather err on the side of caution before I state something that may contradict them.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Fine. I did the research on my own.

Excellent, that is the first step to learning!

The word image in this scripture was translated from the word "tselem" or "zelem". This word is translated as "form, image, likeness, or shadow."

The Hebrew word is Tzelem not Tselem, but you are correct, although Shadow isn't really a good translation.

The same word is used in Genesis 5:3,

Here is the Hebrew, בִּדְמוּתוֹ, כְּצַלְמוֹ which means In His likeness and His image. Rashi states that the verse indicates that Hashem gave Adam the capacity to reproduce offspring who were in his noble likeness. Ramban agrees with Rashi here. Again this refers to people in the image of Hashem as in free will, morality, ect...

Exodus 20:4,

They are talking about creating idols in the pysical sense of Hashem, a carved golden calf for example. So you are semi-correct that it CAN mean a physical sense, although it doesn't ALWAYS mean a physical sense.

Leviticus 26:1,

Again, it uses this in a physical sense talking about creating physical idols of Hashem. Get the idea? I'm not going to go through all of them and look them up.

The way the word is used is describing physical idols like to model or shape an IDOL, not a person.

In Genesis 5:1 the word "likeness" from the phrase "in the likeness of God made he him" is translated from the word "demooth" which means "model, shape, fasten, similitude, and bodily resemblence."

No it's not. Look for yourself...

Bereishis 5:1 זֶה סֵפֶר, תּוֹלְדֹת אָדָם: בְּיוֹם, בְּרֹא אֱלֹהִים אָדָם, בִּדְמוּת אֱלֹהִים, עָשָׂה אֹתוֹ
Bereishis 5:3 וַיְחִי אָדָם, שְׁלֹשִׁים וּמְאַת שָׁנָה, וַיּוֹלֶד בִּדְמוּתוֹ, כְּצַלְמוֹ; וַיִּקְרָא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ, שֵׁת.

Notice how in both cases the same word is used?

Gottstein, in the article "The Body as Image of God in Rabbinic Literature", stated "The bodily meaning is the only meaning of zelem in rabbinic literature. This suggestion is born out in all tannaitic and amoraic sources."

The questoin that you have to ask yourself is do you want to agree with one person's article or the Rabbinic interpretations? Either way, it's your choice, part of the free-will I've been talking about.

It sounds to me like the authors thought that being created in God's image means that we looked like God.

You're free to have your opinion, and so it Gottstein. I'll side with the Sages on these particular verses.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Hebrew word is Tzelem not Tselem, but ...

Please drop the uber-Jew routine. Correcting a transliteration is lame at best. You simply embarrass yourself unless, of course, you wish to insist that B'Tselem misspelled their name.

 

[napen]

What is God’s purpose for mankind?

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)



In what image of God are we created?



15 And I—in righteousness I will see your face;
when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.
Psalm 17:15 (New International Version)


So, we were created in righteousness, not in God's physical form.


20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20 (New International Version)


and...

4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You made him ruler over the works of your hands;
you put everything under his feet:
Psalm 8:4-6 (New International Version)



May these verses give you a clear understanding, and to complete ourselves, we should also know the Name of the God who created us, this is the final revelation to man, to know the Name of God so you can really say you are really a being, a part of the Bible.

 

[jonny]

What is God’s purpose for mankind?

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)

You never answered your question. This verse says little about the purposes of God.

In what image of God are we created?



15 And I—in righteousness I will see your face;
when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness.
Psalm 17:15 (New International Version)


So, we were created in righteousness, not in God's physical form.


20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33:20 (New International Version)


and...

4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You made him ruler over the works of your hands;
you put everything under his feet:
Psalm 8:4-6 (New International Version)



May these verses give you a clear understanding, and to complete ourselves, we should also know the Name of the God who created us, this is the final revelation to man, to know the Name of God so you can really say you are really a being, a part of the Bible.

This is hardly clear. You're going to have to help me here. I fail to see the logical relationship between the questions and scriptures you have posted. Where in the bible does it say that I am part of a book that was put together by imperfect men and didn't exist when God created men and women.

 

[Merlin]

This is hardly clear. You're going to have to help me here. I fail to see the logical relationship between the questions and scriptures you have posted. Where in the bible does it say that I am part of a book that was put together by imperfect men and didn't exist when God created men and women.

Wells said. I have read this through a couple of times, and can't see any relationship between the statements and the texts as quoted. No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

 

[Merlin]

Excellent, that is the first step to learning!

The Hebrew word is Tzelem not Tselem, but you are correct, although Shadow isn't really a good translation.

Here is the Hebrew, בִּדְמוּתוֹ, כְּצַלְמוֹ which means In His likeness and His image. Rashi states that the verse indicates that Hashem gave Adam the capacity to reproduce offspring who were in his noble likeness. Ramban agrees with Rashi here. Again this refers to people in the image of Hashem as in free will, morality, ect...

They are talking about creating idols in the pysical sense of Hashem, a carved golden calf for example. So you are semi-correct that it CAN mean a physical sense, although it doesn't ALWAYS mean a physical sense.

Again, it uses this in a physical sense talking about creating physical idols of Hashem. Get the idea? I'm not going to go through all of them and look them up.

The way the word is used is describing physical idols like to model or shape an IDOL, not a person.

No it's not. Look for yourself...

Bereishis 5:1 זֶה סֵפֶר, תּוֹלְדֹת אָדָם: בְּיוֹם, בְּרֹא אֱלֹהִים אָדָם, בִּדְמוּת אֱלֹהִים, עָשָׂה אֹתוֹ
Bereishis 5:3 וַיְחִי אָדָם, שְׁלֹשִׁים וּמְאַת שָׁנָה, וַיּוֹלֶד בִּדְמוּתוֹ, כְּצַלְמוֹ; וַיִּקְרָא אֶת-שְׁמוֹ, שֵׁת.

Notice how in both cases the same word is used?

The questoin that you have to ask yourself is do you want to agree with one person's article or the Rabbinic interpretations? Either way, it's your choice, part of the free-will I've been talking about.

You're free to have your opinion, and so it Gottstein. I'll side with the Sages on these particular verses.

I will bet you wish you had never made those statements now, Jonny. I do not know if the above is kosher or nonsense, but it sounds clever.

I wouldn't worry too much, no two rabbis could ever agree on the interpretation of anything. There are thousands of books written by them over the years arguing amongst themselves.

At the end of the day, everybody believes what they want to believe. Logic never seems to matter. Sometimes even facts don't.

 

[Aqualung]

Wells said. I have read this through a couple of times, and can't see any relationship between the statements and the texts as quoted. No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Yeah. It was rather illogical.

 

[jonny]

I will bet you wish you had never made those statements now, Jonny. I do not know if the above is kosher or nonsense, but it sounds clever.

I wouldn't worry too much, no two rabbis could ever agree on the interpretation of anything. There are thousands of books written by them over the years arguing amongst themselves.

At the end of the day, everybody believes what they want to believe. Logic never seems to matter. Sometimes even facts don't.

Why would I wish I never made the statements? Because someone presented an argument that does not disprove my argument but shows a different point of view?

 

[napen]

This is hardly clear. You're going to have to help me here. I fail to see the logical relationship between the questions and scriptures you have posted. Where in the bible does it say that I am part of a book that was put together by imperfect men and didn't exist when God created men and women.

If you want to need to know more, I direct you to the site I onced browsed, www.thename.ph try to see the site, maybe it can help you find the answers, and thank you for your comments, I'm afraid I am not that eloquent when airing my views.

again, thank you