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Genesis 1:27

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by jonny, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    For those who believe in the truthfulness of the bible - What does this verse mean to you? How does it influence what you believe in regards to God? Do you think this verse tells us more about ourselves or God?

    Genesis 1:27 - "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    "Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead."(CCC# 357)

    The latter part of this verse speaks to the partnership of man and woman which constitutes the first form of communion between persons.
    Yes.:D
     
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  3. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    we are made in Gods image because we are capable of displaying love ,justice .wisdom .and power.God has these attributes but the facts are that man choose not to use wisdom , because he foolishly broke Gods law:( not a very wise thing to do
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I agree with May, I think it reflects our ability and potential to ultimately be as God like as we can manage.:)
     
  5. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I think God speaks about this is Gen 3:5 :eek:
     
  6. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that is where the serpent says it. But God confirms what the serpent says is true in verse 22.

    The tense of the verbs in the scriptures seem to indicate that this isn't what the Bible is refering to when is states that Adam and Eve were created in God's image. In Genesis 1:27 it says that God "created" man in his own image. In verse 22, God says that Adam has "become as one of use." Whatever being created in God's image means, it was Adam and Eve's state before they partook of the fruit. I don't see where it states in the scriptures that Adam and Eve were no longer in God's image after they partook of the fruit. Genesis 1:22 indicates that partaking of the fruit made them more similar to God because now they had knowledge between good and evil that they didn't have before.
     
  7. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Oh, good point. I had never taken the tense of that into consideration. How could it mean that they were created in his image as having knowledge and what not if a little while later they only become like him in that regard by eating the fruit? It had to have been some other image they were created in, such as, perhaps, physical . . . ?:bounce
     
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  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’" At this the serpent said to the woman: "YOU positively will not die......... genesis 3;3-4 this was the first ever lie that was told on the earth , that old serpent told eve she would not die if she eat the fruit , oh dear what a lier he was and still is, only God has the right to decide what is good and what is bad :tsk:

     
  9. Merlin

    Merlin Active Member

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    Are we debating this as if it were actually and literally true, or as an academic study of the translation?
     
  10. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Our bodies are made up of physical elements that house a spiritual element (that which is God) Even the very "breath of God" contains the essence of God (neither male nor female, but ALL THAT IS), and is too big to fit in the human body, so it was separated into male and female. This is the way I have come to understand it.
     
  11. CMIYC

    CMIYC Member

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    This also says that god is a hermaphrodite… can a woman and a man be made in his image? Or, can the image be part of imagination, but not anything like him as far as appearance.
     
  12. Jenyar

    Jenyar Member

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    I think it would be a mistake to interpret the image God created Adam ("mankind") in, as something purely related to resemblance. This possibility is already excluded to a certain extent by the fact that this "man" was created "male and female". I have little doubt that it refers to a particular expression of God's qualities - the human expression - not an exact "copy" (for instance: God-like autonomous understanding of good and evil; man was not like Him in that regard before the fall) - and it's therefore a stretch to assume that it's particularly a physical resemblance. All verses that point to man's likeness to God refer to virtues like justice (Gen. 9:6), authority (1 Cor. 11:7), knowledge/truth (Colossians 3:10) and respect (James 3:9). Each of these have particular physical expressions, like covering one's head or not (1 Cor. 11:7), but the physical dimension (a woman covering her head) is not derived from the principle (modesty or respect) itself; something else makes it valid, like law, context or culture (it was disgraceful for a woman to have her head shaved).

    In the same way, any physical resemblance to God can only be valid as far as God expressed himself physically, just like our moral resemblance to God could only be valid as far as He expressed himself verbally - as far as we conformed to his commands. When Adam sinned, he deviated from God's revealed image, and his resemblance to God became more superficial (he became more like an autonomous moral agent, "like God", but considering his actual dependent status, as a creation of God, this did not mean he became better at being human). In other words: man had to rely more on a physical existence, complete with toil, suffering and death - separated from paradise - because his spiritual relationship with God had suffered. Even as Adam strived to become more like God is, he became less like God wanted him to be - less like the original image he was created in. The simple reason was that our likeness to God did not depend on our effort or will - our physical nature - but on God's will and nature, on who and what He wants us to be. So God restored his blueprint for us: His only Son, in whose image we could again be called "sons":
    Col. 1:15-21 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

    Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation​
    And this is how God worked our salvation. He let His image pass through sin and death, so that we could be like Him when we went through the same - not unlike him anymore, physically and mentally (note the words "enemies in your minds" and "reconciled ... by Christ's physical body"): "For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man" (Rom. 8:3).

    So, God's image is not a carbon copy, a blanket representation of God that we all automatically share in. It is something we must conform to (Rom. 8:29). It is something quite apart from a natural likeness (1 Cor. 15:49). In fact, it's a spiritual glory (2 Cor. 3:18; see also Psalm 106:20 and Rom. 1:23).

    And lastly, there are even images that might seem for all like God. They may seem to come by his authority and even to bear the likeness of his Son (see my commentary in brackets):
    Rev. 13:11-15 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth [i.e., like Adam]. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon [its appearance is deceiving]. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast [it has an ordained authority], whose fatal wound had been healed [in imitation of Jesus]. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth [they were able to justify believing it]. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.​
    Revelation goes on to tell us the name (or "number") of this beast: man. A false image of God is still an image of God... What man considers "likeness" may not be God's likeness at all.
     
  13. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    If you know something about the translation fill us in! :)
     
  14. CMIYC

    CMIYC Member

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    I think there is a lot more to image then meets the eye. If we weren’t created by god in his image or his likeness, then why do we use these same attributes in judging others? Sayings like, SHE is a perfect image of a woman, or HE is a perfect image of a man. Every person has a different perception on what a perfect image of a woman or a man is. But that’s not it, we have established what perfect is by god or goddess. Therefore if god wanted us to misinterpret the word “image” he would have renamed it to something else
     
  15. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Image, imaginings, imagination. God created us with his/her imagination. We were created as from a 'thought', not an action. God did not brew us in a big cauldron, or grow us in a garden, he created us with his imagination.

    We were created in his image (imaginings). Our spirit is his spirit. Through our spirit we are ONE WITH GOD. Our bodies are made up of physical elements. Our spirit, the life he breathed into us, that is what is like God, we are all co-creators.
     
  16. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Fine. I did the research on my own. :)

    The word image in this scripture was translated from the word "tselem" or "zelem". This word is translated as "form, image, likeness, or shadow." The same word is used in Genesis 5:3, Exodus 20:4, Leviticus 26:1, Psalm 106:19, Isaiah 40:20, and Isaiah 44:9-17.

    In Genesis 5:1 the word "likeness" from the phrase "in the likeness of God made he him" is translated from the word "demooth" which means "model, shape, fasten, similitude, and bodily resemblence."

    Gottstein, in the article "The Body as Image of God in Rabbinic Literature", stated "The bodily meaning is the only meaning of zelem in rabbinic literature. This suggestion is born out in all tannaitic and amoraic sources."

    It sounds to me like the authors thought that being created in God's image means that we looked like God.
     
  17. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    Try this: Bereishis 1:27 "And G-d created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them".
    It might make a little more sense the way I translated it.

    Before I give my commentary on the verse, it's important to look at the above verse to understand this: Bereishis 1:26 And G-d said, "Let us make Man in Our image, after Our likeness. They shall rule over the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and over the animal, the whole earth, and every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

    Okay, now I'm not going to go word-by-word, but I will address the key Hebrew words used, I've put the English in bold to make it easier as I'm not sure if you can read and translate hebrew.

    נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם - Let Us make Man This indicates that Man was created with great care, deliberation, and wisdom. Hashem didn't say, "Let the earth bring forth" as Hashem does with other creatures during the creation. Instead, Hashem brings Man into being with the deepest involvement of Divine Providence and wisdom.

    בְּצַלְמֵנוּ - In Our image This indictates that Hashem had prepared the mold with which He would shape Men.

    כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ - After Our likeness. This indicates that Man would be created with the power of understanding and intellect.

    Now for 1:27... Please keep in mind the ideas I've outlined above.
    וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים - And G-d created, Above I've indicated how Man is unique and how Hashem took time and care to create Man. Since Man is unique, the manner of his creation must also be unique. Notice how Hashem personally made man instead of having the earth create Man? Hashem created Man with his own hands instead of using an utterance.

    בְּצַלְמוֹ בְּצֶלֶם אֱלֹהִים - In His image. Remember, Hashem created all living creatures, but he created Man separate, you could say man is endowed similar to the way Hashem is - Reason, free will, and morality. I believe it is this reason that the Torah describes Man as being created in Hashem's image and likeness.

    I think that addresses the points you want to know, if there is anything else you would like to know, let me know, and I'll try to help you out.
     
  18. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    It's not a physical sense, it has more to do with the power of understanding and intellect.

    In Bereishis 1:1 the word used for "Create" is בָּרָא which doesn't exactly mean create, it means to create out of absolute nothing.

    In Bereishis 1:27, the verse in question uses וַיִּבְרָא which means to create but it's mostly used in the metaphorical sense. It doesn't translate as create in a physical sense, but more of an attribute sense. I hope this helps, it's really hard to explain.
     
  19. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    It looks like you know hebrew! I was hoping someone would comment who did.

    Can you shed some light on the post I made right before yours? I couldn't find any information that shows that the word image is tranlated from doesn't reference something physical. How would you define the words "tselem" and "demooth"?

    Thanks!
     
  20. Deut 13:1

    Deut 13:1 Well-Known Member

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    You're very close...

    The Hebrew verse is as follows:
    Bereishis 3:3 וּמִפְּרִי הָעֵץ, אֲשֶׁר בְּתוֹךְ-הַגָּן--אָמַר אֱלֹהִים לֹא תֹאכְלוּ מִמֶּנּוּ, וְלֹא תִגְּעוּ בּוֹ: פֶּן-תְּמֻתוּן
    Bereishis 3:4 וַיֹּאמֶר הַנָּחָשׁ, אֶל-הָאִשָּׁה: לֹא-מוֹת, תְּמֻתוּן

    The Bolded section: וְלֹא תִגְּעוּ בּוֹ translates as: Nor touch it. If you look back to what Hashem actually stated, He only said not to eat of it. The Midrash states that the Serpant pushed her against the tree and said: "Just as you didn't die from touching it, so you will not die from eating it!" From here the Serpant convincered her that Hashem's death threat was merely to intimidate them not to eat, but that they wouldn't really die.

    Good questions and comments though guys!
     
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