Gender changes

[Kangaroo Feathers]

That's confirmation bias.

What you need to do is look at all of the evidence from those who were bullied and never committed suicide.

That's not how epidemiology works. Not everyone who gets shot dies, that doesn't mean getting shot doesn't cause deaths.

Confirmation bias IS a thing, but researchers ARE aware of it, and structure studies and research to account for it. The link between bullying, depression and suicide are well demonstrated.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's confirmation bias.

What you need to do is look at all of the evidence from those who were bullied and never committed suicide.

If thats how it worked, drunk driving and smoking wouldnt be considered the significant health and public risks they are.

 

[Maximilian]

Bullying is so horrible that even bullies themselves are at an increased risk of suicide (pdf from the CDC).
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2Vlj3AGZf4uYYLf-6H_hr4

And bullying doesn't cause suicide.

Just ask anyone who's been bullied and didn't commit suicide.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And bullying doesn't cause suicide.

Just ask anyone who's been bullied and didn't commit suicide.

Smoking doesnt cause cancer or kill you - just ask anyone who smoked and died a non-smoking related death.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Gender Dysphoria is the symptom, not the problem. That's why you have so many who regret mutilating their bodies through "bottom surgery."

THAT, is confirmation bias. When you seek out and only present the cases that support your belief. Clinical decisions are based on what will provide the best outcomes to the best number of people. EVERY medical treatment has side effects, even to the point of deaths. But if there is a 1% chance of death from receiving a treatment, but a 80% chance of death without the treatment, it's generally accepted that you should get the treatment... EVEN KNOWING 1% OF PEOPLE RECEIVING IT WILL BE KILLED BY THE TREATMENT.

Do some people regret having sex change surgery? I'm sure some do. But that information, by itself, is essentially meaningless. It only has meaning when viewed in the context of ALL similar surgeries. Do MOST people who have sex change surgeries regret it? Or is it just a few nonrepresentative outliers?

 

[Maximilian]

That's not how epidemiology works. Not everyone who gets shot dies, that doesn't mean getting shot doesn't cause deaths.

Confirmation bias IS a thing, but researchers ARE aware of it, and structure studies and research to account for it. The link between bullying, depression and suicide are well demonstrated.

False analogy.

A shotgun blast to the head at close range is always lethal.

That's very different than getting shot in the arm with a .22.

Similarly, untreated Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is always lethal but bullying isn't. And since bullying doesn't necessarily lead to MDD, it's disingenuous to say that bullying causes suicide.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And bullying doesn't cause suicide.

Just ask anyone who's been bullied and didn't commit suicide.

Being shot doesn't cause death, just ask anyone who's ceen shot and didn't die.

 

[Maximilian]

Smoking doesnt cause cancer or kill you - just ask anyone who smoked and died a non-smoking related death.

Correct. If smoking killed people like, say, taking a shotgun blast to the head at close range, cigarettes would be illegal.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

False analogy.

A shotgun blast to the head at close range is always lethal.

That's very different than getting shot in the arm with a .22.

Similarly, untreated Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is always lethal but bullying isn't. And since bullying doesn't necessarily lead to MDD, it's disingenuous to say that bullying causes suicide.

Getting shot with a .22 CAn kill you, the fact that it won't in all cases doesn't mean that it doesn't. Same with bullying. I posted a link for you with information that demonstrates the clear link between them, really it's pretty settled science.

If YOU were bullied and didn't commit suicide, because of it, that's great. That doesn't mean that SOMEONE ELSE who was bullied wouldn't commit suicide because of it.

If you don't like wikipedia, here's what the CDC has to say about it; https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/bullying-suicide-translation-final-a.pdf

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Correct. If smoking killed people like, say, taking a shotgun blast to the head at close range, cigarettes would be illegal.

Are you suggesting smoking doesn't, in fact, kill people?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Correct. If smoking killed people like, say, taking a shotgun blast to the head at close range, cigarettes would be illegal.

Making them illegal wouldnt work and we have reason to assume it wouldnt. But we do have lots of dead people because of the very significant link between smoking and early/preventable deaths, because smoking often does cause it in several forms.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you suggesting smoking doesn't, in fact, kill people?

Mike Pence does, so the claim isnt unheard of. Just very unusual since pretty much everyone knows how bad smoking is for you.

 

[Maximilian]

Making them illegal wouldnt work and we have reason to assume it wouldnt. But we do have lots of dead people because of the very significant link between smoking and early/preventable deaths, because smoking often does cause it in several forms.

How does this change the reality that bullying doesn't cause suicide?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And "Transgender individuals have a high prevalence of HIV/STDs . . . mental health issues . . . and suicide."

What's your point? Des their incidence of suicide INcrease or DEcrease after receiving GRT?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

How does this change the reality that bullying doesn't cause suicide?

You've been presented with evidence that it does, continuing to simply pretend otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Either demonstrate the information is wrong, or stop making the demonstrably false claim.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How does this change the reality that bullying doesn't cause suicide?

It was a point to demonstrate the problem with your claim. Afterall, not even the black death had a 100% kill rate. But if you got it you was probably going to die. With bullying, there is definitely an increased risk of suicide. Just as thee are strong links between smoking and various illnesses.

 

[Maximilian]

Getting shot with a .22 CAn kill you, the fact that it won't in all cases doesn't mean that it doesn't. Same with bullying. I posted a link for you with information that demonstrates the clear link between them, really it's pretty settled science.

If YOU were bullied and didn't commit suicide, because of it, that's great. That doesn't mean that SOMEONE ELSE who was bullied wouldn't commit suicide because of it.

If you don't like wikipedia, here's what the CDC has to say about it; https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/bullying-suicide-translation-final-a.pdf

And suicide is directly linked to Depression. Which is why treating Depression effectively always saves lives.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And suicide is directly linked to Depression. Which is why treating Depression effectively always saves lives.

... and how do you "effectively treat depression"? That's right, by identifying and controlling causative factors, like bullying.

 

[Maximilian]

You've been presented with evidence that it does, continuing to simply pretend otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Either demonstrate the information is wrong, or stop making the demonstrably false claim.

"Negative outcomes of bullying (for youth who bully others, youth who are bullied, and youth who both are bullied and bully others) may include: depression, anxiety, involvement in interpersonal violence or sexual violence, substance abuse, poor social functioning, and poor school performance, including lower grade point averages, standardized test scores, and poor attendance." -CDC (Emphasis mine.)

Depression when left untreated or if poorly treated WILL cause suicide.

The CDC does not say the same about bullying.

 

[Maximilian]

... and how do you "effectively treat depression"? That's right, by identifying and controlling causative factors, like bullying.

And those who are bullied but do not end up suffering from Depression never commit suicide.