gay, wrong? why?

[Mike182]

Who is being rude?

no one as of yet, but some comments about the bible and religious belief are starting to get a bit personal - Meggie was just putting out a reminder to everyone to be mindful of others

 

[fantome profane]

Homosexuality is not just a problem in Christianity, but in Society.

No it is not a problem in Society. I don’t even think it needs to be a problem in Christianity, but I will let you Christians debate that. I do understand that many individuals do have a problem with homosexuality, and it is very apparent that you, Jerrell have a problem with homosexuality. And I hope I don’t come off sounding too cruel, but the fact is that your problem is just that, your problem.

Hmmm I gues the real question would be, why wouldn't it be wrong?

I don’t really think that is the question, but still I thought I would go ahead and answer it.

When two people love each other and make each other’s lives better that would not be wrong. In fact that is very very right. That is what we are supposed to be doing, loving each other.

 

[lilithu]

Hmmm I gues the real question would be, why wouldn't it be wrong?

So everything is wrong unless you can prove that it's right?? Man, what a depressing view of the world.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

As Mike noted, it was more of a pre-emptive post than anything else.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Finally, we have the word of God as told to someone who's alive today !!!!
Woohoo! (Can I have whatever HE's having???
SeriousIy, though, I would like to hear more about this "new" Gnosticism, as I thought it had all been wiped out long ago, save for the fragments from Nag Hammadi. Hopefully that is not the case.

Hehe the word of God is in us all.

I promise it has nothing to do with illegal substances (well not very often :areyoucra)

Gnosticsm is back and growing rapidly, Neo Gnosticism assimilates many other theisms and philosophies, but the central tenet of Neo Gnosticsm is the same as the older dualistic Gnostic movement the Church supressed, in that for us to truly know God we cannot allow ourselves to be indoctrinated by Bishops and Clergy we must instead remember what all of us already know deep within our sub concious, and on the concious level learn as much as we can from science and religion and philosophy and from other minds, not rejecting 'forbidden' knowledge, not enslaving ourselves to ignorance, we Gnostics will not cannot submit to the exclusive authority of man or book, even if they use fear to try and defeat us (as the fundy christians might do) to do so is the little death, the death of our vision.

Then when we defeat our ignorances and prejudices then we can achieve Gnosis, or greater understanding, with this greater understanding, we can unlock our latent powers and gifts and open our third eyes...and more importantly we can actually see and hear what God is revealing and saying.

For God sings to me every day (not literally Iam being poetic)...and he says "I gave you eyes and a mind now tell me what you see and think...."

 

[Simon Gnosis]

As Mike noted, it was more of a pre-emptive post than anything else.

All righty then.

I admit I thought you meant me hehe

I do get 'excited' sometimes as you Mod dudes are probably aware...the impetuousness of youth.....so I am told.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

I've had the Experince of seeing Preachers who used to be gay turn straight, I've also had the previledge of seeing a confused colledge student turning right, but i've also had the experince of meeting those who simply refuse to change. Homosexuality is not just a problem in Christianity, but in Society. If you accept it, why change? If others don't accept it, why don't they? If you are not Christian, what does it matter to you that Homosexuality is wrong with God?

For many it is a way of life, they were born into it, just as many poeple were born with the tendency to be angry, to go crazy, to murder, to steal, to aggrivate (incredibly). Homosexuality initially may not be a choice, but it IS a choice as to whether one lives that way, one doesn't have to be homosexual, if you beleive in GOd he can bring you through.

1) "If a man lies with a man as he does with a woman both of them have commited an abomination...' Leveticus 28:13

2)
Romans 1:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain F8 God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

The Creature- Means that Which God created

Initially poeple are gay because they reject the will of God for them to live another way.

Hideous...absolutely hideous.

When I read posts like this I know I made the right choice when I rejected christianity.

Thanks for reminding me Jerrel!

One day Neo Gnosticism will be the number one world religion.

 

[lilithu]

Hideous...absolutely hideous.

When I read posts like this I know I made the right choice when I rejected christianity.

Thanks for reminding me Jerrel!

One day Neo Gnosticism will be the number one world religion.

Simon, not all Christians think that way. Have you read the posts by sojourner, CaptainXeroid, and michel in this same thread?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Simon, not all Christians think that way. Have you read the posts by sojourner, CaptainXeroid, and michel in this same thread?

Irrelevant really...no offence...its just that well to be honest Jerrel is right (in a way).
The bible does indeed condem homosexuality, no matter what the others may say.
Christianity has lost me forever...

 

[lilithu]

Irrelevant really...no offence...its just that well to be honest Jerrel is right (in a way).
The bible does indeed condem homosexuality, no matter what the others may say.
Christianity has lost me forever...

I'm not trying to convert you back to Christianity. I'm not Christian myself. My point is that what doesn't work for you does work for someone else. If you condemn an entire religion without looking at the nuances, how does that make you any better?

And no, the bible does not indeed condemn homosexuality. The concept of sexual orientation did not even exist back then. What the bible does is condemn certain practices. Some people interpret that as meaning homosexuality, and some people interpret that as meaning specific practices within specific contexts, most of which do not exist any more. I will not pretend to know which interpretation is "right." But depending on some interpretations, the bible condemns homosexuality and according to other interpretations it does not. As several people have said, different Christians take what they will from different parts. NO ONE takes all of it literally. It's rather impossible.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Well said, Lillithu.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

I'm not trying to convert you back to Christianity. I'm not Christian myself. My point is that what doesn't work for you does work for someone else. If you condemn an entire religion without looking at the nuances, how does that make you any better?

And no, the bible does not indeed condemn homosexuality. The concept of sexual orientation did not even exist back then. What the bible does is condemn certain practices. Some people interpret that as meaning homosexuality, and some people interpret that as meaning specific practices within specific contexts, most of which do not exist any more. I will not pretend to know which interpretation is "right." But depending on some interpretations, the bible condemns homosexuality and according to other interpretations it does not. As several people have said, different Christians take what they will from different parts. NO ONE takes all of it literally. It's rather impossible.

Eh?

How do you know which concepts existed and which did not 2000 years ago in lands far away?
I think the bible condemns sex between people of the same gender if thats any better for you...
I dont condemn christianity just because it is anti gay LOL there are many reasons I reject that religion...no offense but don't pretend to know my mind because you most certainly don't...thankyou.
Fascinating use of sophistry...

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I am being condemned now for seconding something I agree with, have studied in depth, and am happy that someone summarized in far better words than I could?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

I am being condemned now for seconding something I agree with, have studied in depth, and am happy that someone summarized in far better words than I could?

Wonderfull!

You can second it all you like...

No I am not nice....I view all humans with equal contempt, but I fight it

 

[Feathers in Hair]

That may as well be, but everyone agrees to the forum rules when they signed up.
If this continues, I will withdraw myself in my moderation duties when it comes to deciding the outcome of this thread.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

That may as well be, but everyone agrees to the forum rules when they signed up.
If this continues, I will withdraw myself in my moderation duties when it comes to deciding the outcome of this thread.

Are you threatening me with some kind of punitive action because I disagree with you...remarkable...do so then.

But please tell me which rule I am breaking...

 

[stemann]

Come on guys, the keystone of debate is true communication of ideas; we all need to be on the same wavelength. Simon, please ask lilithu for an explanation of what she means if you did not understand some of it, and please don't be offended by it and then laugh at her.

Thanks for the points and everything- seriously, that was cool- but there's no reason to cause instability or enmity in the debate just because of any annoyances you have with Christianity or anything else that isn't directly the people with whom you are debating.

Please do tell me if you feel I'm out of line, I don't usually try to patch things up in debates where I have nothing specific to add myself, so I could just look an idiot.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Come on guys, the keystone of debate is true communication of ideas; we all need to be on the same wavelength. Simon, please ask lilithu for an explanation of what she means if you did not understand some of it, and please don't be offended by it and then laugh at her.

Thanks for the points and everything- seriously, that was cool- but there's no reason to cause instability or enmity in the debate just because of any annoyances you have with Christianity or anything else that isn't directly the people with whom you are debating.

Please do tell me if you feel I'm out of line, I don't usually try to patch things up in debates where I have nothing specific to add myself, so I could just look an idiot.

Yeah I know...point taken.
I understood alright though...

Blooming peace mongerer...

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Iam a baaaad boy.

 

[lilithu]

How do you know which concepts existed and which did not 2000 years ago in lands far away?

Actually I'm going by what scholars have written on the subject. I assume they've researched it more thoroughly than you.

I dont condemn christianity just because it is anti gay LOL there are many reasons I reject that religion...no offense but don't pretend to know my mind because you most certainly don't...thankyou.
Fascinating use of sophistry...

I don't pretend to know your mind. I am responding to what you have written.

And I do seem to recall that there was a mod warning about personal attacks.