Gay Bashing

[Zaha Torte]

Then prove it. Let's see your evidence.

I'm convinced that there is no evidence that you would accept.

And besides - I never claimed any desire to convince anyone of anything.

Can't people just share their opinions on this site?

 

[thomas t]

I'm convinced that there is no evidence that you would accept.

He asked for evidence and asking for this, in a debate, is totally fine. Bring some quality in!
There is no reason to hypothesize that your conversation would not accept evidence.
So why not go ahead and present some?

Can't people just share their opinions on this site?

May I ask you for something: please back them up!
Don't just post disparaging remarks without substanciating your claims, please.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm convinced that there is no evidence that you would accept.

And besides - I never claimed any desire to convince anyone of anything.

Can't people just share their opinions on this site?

I accept medical and scientific research as evidence.

I just want to know why you think it's more harmful than sniffing glue. Did you think no one would ask you about that?

 

[Zaha Torte]

He asked for evidence and asking for this, in a debate, is totally fine. Bring some quality in!
There is no reason to hypothesize that your conversation would not accept evidence.
So why not go ahead and present some?

May I ask you for something: please back them up!
Don't just post disparaging remarks without substanciating your claims, please.

I have had this discussion dozens - if not hundreds - of times.

When people get too emotionally invested - which I believe people in this thread have - there is no point.

This discussion will not be productive.

Besides - I never claimed to be making an argument nor did I agreed to any debate.

All I wanted to do was share my personal experience and my opinion.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I accept medical and scientific research as evidence.

I just want to know why you think it's more harmful than sniffing glue. Did you think no one would ask you about that?

People can ask me whatever they want. That doesn't mean that I'm obligated to give an answer.

Especially after repeatedly stating that I was not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Besides - weren't you the one who told me that you didn't care what I thought and that you didn't love me? (Post #708)

And didn't you also say that you didn't need to "consider the other side" of these issues? (Post #715)

And didn't you tell me to "Go away" after I pointed out that you had made a lot of assumptions about me, heterosexuals and Christians? (Post #736)

You've made it clear that you don't care about what I think. You view me in the most negative and unproductive way. You've admitted that you feel no need to consider the other side of an argument. And when I questioned your assertions and exposed your claims to be false - you tried to make it look like I had committed some offense in doing so.

You didn't want to listen to me before - so why should I believe you'd listen to anything I say now?

I see no reason to continue with people who have proven they have no intention of even considering what I would share.

That would be a fruitless exercise in futility. Not to mention not being any fun at all.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People can ask me whatever they want. That doesn't mean that I'm obligated to give an answer.

Especially after repeatedly stating that I was not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Besides - weren't you the one who told me that you didn't care what I thought and that you didn't love me? (Post #708)

And didn't you also say that you didn't need to "consider the other side" of these issues? (Post #715)

And didn't you tell me to "Go away" after I pointed out that you had made a lot of assumptions about me, heterosexuals and Christians? (Post #736)

You've made it clear that you don't care about what I think. You view me in the most negative and unproductive way. You've admitted that you feel no need to consider the other side of an argument. And when I questioned your assertions and exposed your claims to be false - you tried to make it look like I had committed some offense in doing so.

You didn't want to listen to me before - so why should I believe you'd listen to anything I say now?

I see no reason to continue with people who have proven they have no intention of even considering what I would share.

That would be a fruitless exercise in futility. Not to mention not being any fun at all.

I made it clear that your "love" talk bothered me and asked you to stop. Bizarrely, you got all offended and won't drop it. I don't really care what you think, but this is a debate thread. It's in a debate subforum. If you make a claim or statement, especially one as extreme as believing homosexuality is more dangerous than glue sniffing, you should expect someone to question you about that and want to hear your reasoning. If you believe that you don't have to back up your opinions here, after being informed that this is a debate thread and even the thread creator requesting that you back up your statements, then you should see yourself out.

But what I'm not interested in is another whiny tantrum or any more creepy "love" comments. If you carry on with the latter, I'm going to take that as harassment.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I made it clear that your "love" talk bothered me and asked you to stop. Bizarrely, you got all offended and won't drop it. I don't really care what you think, but this is a debate thread. It's in a debate subforum. If you make a claim or statement, especially one as extreme as believing homosexuality is more dangerous than glue sniffing, you should expect someone to question you about that and want to hear your reasoning. If you believe that you don't have to back up your opinions here, after being informed that this is a debate thread and even the thread creator requesting that you back up your statements, then you should see yourself out.

But what I'm not interested in is another whiny tantrum or any more creepy "love" comments. If you carry on with the latter, I'm going to take that as harassment.

Yeah - I have no interest in talking with you anymore.

You aren't here to have any discussion.

I didn't even claim that homosexuality was worse than glue sniffing.

You again tried to turn the offensive things that you did into an attack on me.

Leave me alone.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah - I have no interest in talking with you anymore.

You aren't here to have any discussion.

I didn't even claim that homosexuality was worse than glue sniffing.

You again tried to turn the offensive things that you did into an attack on me.

Leave me alone.

Actually, I am trying to have a discussion here. You're the one trying your hardest to avoid discussing your views and playing the martyr. But so be it. Just don't think for a minute that your victim act is working.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Actually, I am trying to have a discussion here. You're the one trying your hardest to avoid discussing your views and playing the martyr. But so be it. Just don't think for a minute that your victim act is working.

You are asking to have a discussion after telling me that you don't care what I think and that you are unwilling to look at the other side of the issue?

That makes no sense. Leave me alone.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are asking to have a discussion after telling me that you don't care what I think and that you are unwilling to look at the other side of the issue?

That makes no sense. Leave me alone.

I was talking about homosexuality. I'm fairly certain I've heard all the arguments offered against it. But maybe you have one I haven't heard yet. Who knows. That glue sniffing comment appeared to be about cohabitation before marriage. So if you think that's worse than glue sniffing, I'd be interested in hearing why.

You could always put me on ignore or stop replying to me if it's bothering you so much.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

judge on people when I wasn't.

You have been doing this.

 

[thomas t]

I have had this discussion dozens - if not hundreds - of times.

When people get too emotionally invested - which I believe people in this thread have - there is no point.

This discussion will not be productive.

I'm not emotionally invested, I want to see evidence now. What I want is a facts based debate.
I noticed that within the Christian community, there are all sorts of myths being passed on, such as climate change being a lie ("a hoax", "a scam"), Donald Trump being stolen the election and many more.
When it comes to LGBT+, the standard theory is "it's a mental illness!".

When you ask for evidence, you never get anything that could actually prove this attack on a group.
Instead, you sometimes get to hear cheap talk such as "google this" ... or even "you are too emotionally invested, you wouldn't believe in the evidence". The latter is a mere cop-out, I'm afraid.
I'm concerned that Christianity does not get snowed under with garbage - I mean all these theories that never get backed up by facts because they cannot be backed up by the facts.

Besides - I never claimed to be making an argument nor did I agreed to any debate.

All I wanted to do was share my personal experience and my opinion.

actually, you produced the stigma of them being self-destructive. That's just not some opinion. It's rumor spreading to their detriment, I think.


Let me write something from own experience:
This is actually my fourth forum. Before, I joined three major Christian forums. On my first one, they all of a sudden tried to tell me I was a criminal. This again is not just some opinion. It is a disparaging remark against me personally that never could be backed up by any facts. But they kept claiming I was and the mere debate was strange. I still have the links, but they are in German language.
In my opinion, you should not accuse people of no matter what if you cannot produce the evidence necessary to substanciate your allegations.

edited for clarity.

 

[Zaha Torte]

You have been doing this.

How?

 

[Zaha Torte]

I'm not emotionally invested, I want to see evidence now. What I want is a facts based debate.
I noticed that within the Christian community, there are all sorts of myths being passed on, such as climate change being a lie ("a hoax", "a scam"), Donald Trump being stolen the election and many more.
When it comes to LGBT+, the standard theory is "it's a mental illness!".

When you ask for evidence, you never get anything that could actually prove this attack on a group.
Instead, you sometimes get to hear cheap talk such as "google this" ... or even "you are too emotionally invested, you wouldn't believe in the evidence". The latter is a mere cop-out, I'm afraid.
I'm concerned that Christianity does not get snowed under with garbage - I mean all these theories that never get backed up by facts because they cannot be backed up by the facts.



actually, you produced the stigma of them being self-destructive. That's just not some opinion. It's rumor spreading to their detriment, I think.


Let me write something from own experience:
This is actually my fourth forum. Before, I joined three major Christian forums. On my first one, they all of a sudden tried to tell me I was a criminal. This again is not just some opinion. It is a disparaging remark against me personally that never could be backed up by any facts. But they kept claiming I was and the mere debate was strange. I still have the links, but they are in German language.
In my opinion, you should not accuse people of no matter what if you cannot produce the evidence necessary to substanciate your allegations.

edited for clarity.

Ok. Let me get this straight.

I shared my opinion that people shacking up together before marriage is destructive. All the while claiming that people are free to do as they want and never claiming that those who make this decision are bad people.

I also shared many times that I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. That I was not making any argument or having any debate. I simply wanted to share my opinion.

And the reason I gave for not wanting to have such a debate is because I have already had this same debate dozens and dozens of times and I considered it a waste of my time and effort.

Yet - since you want to have a debate - you believe that you are justified in claiming that I am "passing on myths", "cheap talk", "copping out" and that it is absolutely impossible for me to back up my opinion.

Why do you believe you can try to force me to do something I claimed I never wanted to do? And then when I refused to do what you wanted you began to "produce a stigma" about me and all Christians and "spreading a rumors to our detriment" (the climate change and election steal crap).

To all this I effectively say, "No. I owe you nothing. I'm doing exactly what I said I would do. And you are a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of."

I love you - but I'm not going to waste my time and effort making an argument that will just be ignored. It has happened so many times before and I'm no fool.

 

[thomas t]

I never said or meant you are a fool.
It's just that I notice so many unproven and unsupported allegations against to the detriment of other minorities ... coming from within the Christian community, that this time... I asked you to back up what you've said.
In an environment that's highly charged with unsupported accusations against other minorities, why add to all this making another unsupported claim about others?
You don't owe me anything.
But it seems to me you're doing a disservice to the Christian community adding another unproven allegation to what is said already.

I shared my opinion that people shacking up together before marriage is destructive.

still, it's backed up by nothing.
It's rumor spreading (here, I stay with my opinion).

But no, I didn't produce a stigma about you. No no. I have nothing against you personally. Believe me. All I want is a facts based debate. Asking for evidence in debat is totally fine, I think.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I never said or meant you are a fool.
It's just that I notice so many unproven and unsupported allegations against to the detriment of other minorities ... coming from within the Christian community, that this time... I asked you to back up what you've said.
In an environment that's highly charged with unsupported accusations against other minorities, why add to all this making another unsupported claim about others?
You don't owe me anything.
But it seems to me you're doing a disservice to the Christian community adding another unproven allegation to what is said already.


still, it's backed up by nothing.
It's rumor spreading (here, I stay with my opinion).

But no, I didn't produce a stigma about you. No no. I have nothing against you personally. Believe me. All I want is a facts based debate. Asking for evidence in debat is totally fine, I think.

But you are making claims about me. What have I said to stigmatize minorities?

Are you claiming that only minorities shack up together?

 

[thomas t]

What have I said to stigmatize minorities?

no, I said you are rumor spreading against others. I didn't say you are discriminating against minorities (at this occasion).

However, many Christians do resort to rumor spreading against other minorities.
So far, you only spreaded rumors against others which is "only" impolite. But the environment in which this happens, makes it all worse, I think. It's a sad standard seen in Christianity: Stating something to the detriment of others - but refusing to back it up by the facts, aka rumor spreading.

So, I ask you: don't add to the rumors that are already spread by Christians.
A typical rumor would be "LGBT+ people ar mentally ill"... you're spreading a rumor that comes very close to these kinds of unsupported statements.

Let me put it that way: no more rumors to the detriment of others please.
Either back your statements up or shy out, please.
Maybe you still think "I say what I want".... but this is how the Christians who say "they all are ill" always think, I'm afraid.
It's just the same kind of behavior that I see in your rumors... it's impolite and ruthless.

I didn't say anything about only minorities shacking up together, though.

 

[Zaha Torte]

no, I said you are rumor spreading against others. I didn't say you are discriminating against minorities (at this occasion).

However, many Christians do resort to rumor spreading against other minorities.
So far, you only spreaded rumors against others which is "only" impolite. But the environment in which this happens, makes it all worse, I think. It's a sad standard seen in Christianity: Stating something to the detriment of others - but refusing to back it up by the facts, aka rumor spreading.

So, I ask you: don't add to the rumors that are already spread by Christians.
A typical rumor would be "LGBT+ people ar mentally ill"... you're spreading a rumor that comes very close to these kinds of unsupported statements.

Let me put it that way: no more rumors to the detriment of others please.
Either back your statements up or shy out, please.
Maybe you still think "I say what I want".... but this is how the Christians who say "they all are ill" always think, I'm afraid.
It's just the same kind of behavior that I see in your rumors... it's impolite and ruthless.

I didn't say anything about only minorities shacking up together, though.

Do you not also realize that it is not just Christians that may take issue with people shacking up outside of marriage?

You claimed that my comments about people shacking up was a "detriment" to minorities. Which is why I asked if you believed that only minorities were shacking up.

Even though I do not consider me sharing my opinion as "spreading rumors" - why do you keep on spreading rumors about Christians?

All I said was that people shacking up hurt their chances of having successful marriages - which is why I claimed that it was destructive and wished that people would avoid it.

I never claimed that those who decide to shack up are bad people or anything like that.

You - on the other hand - have claimed that I am personally "doing a disservice to the Christian community" and that I am "impolite" and "ruthless". These are personal statements about me and my integrity - which I found to be inappropriate.

You also claimed that Christians have a "sad standard" of "stating something to the detriment of others" and that "many Christians resort to rumor spreading against minorities" - such as claiming that "LGBT people are mentally ill."

So while you are asking - rather demanding - that I not share my opinion because someone somewhere would be offended - here you are - speaking one-on-one with a Christian - stating all these "rumors" to the detriment of all Christians?

Do you not see the hypocrisy there? How you hurt your own position? Your own assumed moral high ground?

It just goes to show that your morality doesn't even go skin deep. You cry foul for one group (which wasn't even defined since anyone of any group can decide to shack up) but then you feel free as a bird to make sweeping generalizations about one group of people.

All the while crying "shame on you" when all I claim is that I disagree with a particular action made by all groups of people.

Basically - you made personal claims about me and you made judgements about a group of people - while all I did was share my opinion about a particular action - not a particular group of people.

So instead of you taking it upon yourself to police the speech of others (because you are not perfect nor have that authority anyways) - we just agree that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want and they also have the right to share it.

Your opinion was worthless to me before your faux pas so it is worth even less than that to me now.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ok. Let me get this straight.

I shared my opinion that people shacking up together before marriage is destructive. All the while claiming that people are free to do as they want and never claiming that those who make this decision are bad people.

I also shared many times that I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. That I was not making any argument or having any debate. I simply wanted to share my opinion.

And the reason I gave for not wanting to have such a debate is because I have already had this same debate dozens and dozens of times and I considered it a waste of my time and effort.

Yet - since you want to have a debate - you believe that you are justified in claiming that I am "passing on myths", "cheap talk", "copping out" and that it is absolutely impossible for me to back up my opinion.

Why do you believe you can try to force me to do something I claimed I never wanted to do? And then when I refused to do what you wanted you began to "produce a stigma" about me and all Christians and "spreading a rumors to our detriment" (the climate change and election steal crap).

To all this I effectively say, "No. I owe you nothing. I'm doing exactly what I said I would do. And you are a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of."

I love you - but I'm not going to waste my time and effort making an argument that will just be ignored. It has happened so many times before and I'm no fool.

Welcome to RF

 

[Zaha Torte]

Welcome to RF

Like your photo. RIP John Candy.