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GaudiyaVaisnavism,the importance of Sri Sri Gaura Nitai, why we dont go to the supreme lord directly

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by ratikala, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    In conversation with a freind recently it occured to me that many do not understand quite why we place so much importance on the worship or Glorification of Sri Sri Gaura Nitai , (Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Nityananda Prabhu) , .....

    Although the reasons exist on many levels the first and perhaps most easily understandable is that as Vaisnava we beleive the supreme lords true nature to be beyond our mundane comprehension , ..we consider our selves too lowly and too contaminated by material attatchments to be able to approach the supreme lord directly , thus we seek the 'Mercy' of one who acts as an intermediary thus we place great importance upon worship of Guru and Goranga , ...

    this may be even more confusing to a non Gaudiya as Some Gaudiya place great importance on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself others upon Nityananda and the remainder on both equaly , .....this has even at times caused some confusion between different Gaudiya traditions , yet it should not , ....

    Perhaps we shoud begin with the Question of 'Mercy'
    ...why do we go first to the feet of the servant ?
    ...why cant we go streight to the top , ....why cant we approach Krsna or Visnu directly ?
     
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  2. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    I think the reason Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is such a BRILLIANT (in the real terms, like a halo) historical figures in Hinduism and of the PEOPLE is because He led one of the LARGEST non-cooperation movements in the annals of humankind. At a time when it was literally ILLEGAL to say the name of HINDU GOD in public (or even in private if heard by others) under the repression of Islamic overlords, this Chaitanya literally went into the streets and then upon assemblage of HUGE in the multiple tens of thousands and more people, He would LIFT HIS HANDS into the sky, and start calling for someone, as if calling for a lost beloved - “Hareeeeee … Kurrr-UUUSH-NA, Hare Kraresh-NAH, Krishna, Krishna…” and then He would start to sway, and LOUDER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER and then LEAPING into the sky, and then multitudes would join and in VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OF THE STATE would proclaim the LORD’S NAME.

    The crowds were SO LARGE, the Islamic Overlord and his assemblage of bureaucrats literally hid shaking in fear in their palaces. While anyone else would face torture and death, they knew their enforcers were literally outnumbered by huge numbers of people, yet Chaitanya still faced extreme danger and imminent death, nevertheless.

    And where did He find his COURAGE?

    What courage? It was never a question of “courage”.

    He only saw himself the SERVANT of the SERVANT ...why do we go first to the feet of the servant?
    Because we cannot go to the top without first being the servant of the servant, because …
    There is no one like the devotee. No one like the devotee. No one like the devotee to find a way to stand together with your beloved devotees as ONE with the LORD. Then you have MORE than just courage.
     
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Orhodox, I see only one and like Jews and Muslims, do not associate it with any other.
     
  4. निताइ dasa

    निताइ dasa Nitai's servant's servant

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    Beautiful topic Ratikalaji! This has made me so happy!

    You are right, question of Mercy it is!! The Mercy of Sri Sri Gaur Nitai is so liberal so encompassing. And I mean, from a Gaudiya perceptive, they are the Lords and Avatars of Kaliyuga, therefore it would be inappropriate to skip their worship and head directly to Sri Sri Radha Krsna. But I have realized this personally...I am nothing without my Lords Sri Sri Gaur Nitai. They have given me everything. I am so utterly unqualified to worship Radha and Krsna but still for some reason They have accept me in service. For some reason, I have more attraction to Gaura Lila than Krsna Lila. For me...Krsna Lila, I feel like I am trangressing when I discuss it, but Gaura Lila is so abundant with Karuna and Daya that I can't help myself.

    Even from a pure Vaishnav perceptive, the worship of the devotee is more pleasing to Krsna than the worship of Krsna Himself. So when we approach and worship any Vaishnav, that brings us so much closer to Krsna. Krsna becomes indebted to that soul who pleases His devotee. In Chaitanya Charitamrta, the two brothers (Nitai and Gaur) are compared to the sun and moon respectively. Nitai is the sun who vanquishes the darkness of ignorance and Gaura is the moon who causes the ocean of bhava to swell.

    ajanu-lambita-bhujau kanakavadatau
    sankirtanaika-pitarau kamalayataksau
    visvambharau dvija-varau yuga-dharma-palau
    vande jagat priya-karau karunavatarau


    I offer my respectful obeisances unto Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu and Shri Nityananda Prabhu, whose long arms extend to Their knees. They have splendid golden complexions, and They inaugurated the congregational chanting of the holy names of the Lord. Their eyes resemble the petals of lotus flowers. They are the maintainers of all the worlds, the best of the brahmanas, the protectors of the religious principles for this age. They bring happiness to the people of the world and are the most merciful of all incarnations.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Jai Jai , .....whether this is what you ment or not you are correct as we must not associate Sri Chaitanya with any other than Krsna himself and Nityananda Prabhu with his eternal brother Balaram thus by dint of Krsnas mercy Lord Chaitanya appears with his associates in this Kaliyuga to diliver those traped under opressive rule and to give them access to the supreme lord by simple chanting of the holy Name , ....
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    :D I accept Krishna only. He is Brahman.
     
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  7. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    thank you Shiv ji I enjoyed your post so much , .....

    Jai Jai , ..this we must not forget , ....in many places in India at this time Temples had been ransaked and the Deities removed , some had been captured by the ruling muslims and taken away other Deities had been hidden , some even Burried buy the Vaisnavas for safekeeping , ....many people had no access to worship in the traditional manner , ...some pandits and yogis still practiced in the seclusion of their homes and villages , but many people at that time were frightened to practice , some had even faced forced conversion , in this instance they would have been shuned by the remaining Hindu comunity , this was certainly a very bad time for Hindus , ...


    many times they had been threatened and their drums had been smashed to stop them from engaging in congregational chanting , ...yet still fearlessly they continued , ....

    was it courage ??? ...or was it love that knows no bounds , ......


    Jai Jai , ...it was boundless love , ....it was the love of Srimati Radharani for Krsna himself , this love knows no bounds and canot be thwarted , ......

    Jai Jai , ..... you have the most powerfull force , ..which is love , .....
     
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  8. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Jai Jai , ...you are as mischeivious as ever :)

    Jai Jai , ..this is true , and also Srimati Radharani is nondifferent to Krsna as she is his loving potency ....so now you begin to see the Lords mercy at work time and time again , how he appears for his devotees , how he will not be seperated from them , ....

    but here in this lila he appears to shower his mercy upon the outcast and the fallen , he will never neglect us , .....
     
  9. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Jai Nityananda bol Hari bol Hari bol , ......
    so we shall enjoy glorifying their lordships , ...Jai Jai , ...


    this is the beauty of Chaitanya Lila , .....the lord himself takes the position of the servant , embued with the love of Srimati Radharani Chaitanya searches for the Lord like a lover seperated from the beloved , bit in this instance he searches not just for himself , not just as Radharani does for her own pleasure , but in this instance it is for the sake of the outcast and fallen , ....

    it is for us who feel so utterly un qualified that the Lord and his accociates manifest , ....in this form the Lord accepts all castes and even those born of non Hindu birth , ...he converted muslims not by force but by love alone , he in this lila turns no one away , ....

    so beautifuly you say .....

    as it is this qualification that is all important , ...in this age of Kali how many of us are truely qualified to worship Radha Krsna Directly ??? ...we make so many offences without even realising that in truth we canot see Krsna nor can we realy relish the passtimes of the divine couple , ...yet through the Mercy of Sri Chaitanya even in our impure state we can approach Krsna , we may chant his name which intime as it is non different from Krsna himself removes all obsticals to our seeing and knowing the Supreme , ......

    so here , yes , we see the Divine lila of Krsna and Balarama acting out before our very eyes as their apperance not only brought about a massive movement in Bengal which rescued thousands upon thousands of oppressed persons of low caste and those opressed by the current ruling class , but this movement has spread all over the world , it has made Krsna accessable to so many simply by the gift of congregational chanting , ....



    Jai Jai , ....
     
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  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Who or where is the out-caste? It is Krishna only. Ratiben, you know it, why ask answers :)?

    "Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne, brāhmaṇe gavi hastini;
    śuni caiva śva-pāke ca, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ;" BG 5.18
     
  11. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Namaskaram Prabhu ji , ....

    I am glad that you see no difference between castes and can see the lord in the heart of all beings but here I speak of the Mercy of Sri Chaitanya who appeared in an age when discrimination and oppression was rife , .....

    sadly others out of ignorance saw only with material eyes , ....being Krsna at the heart does not stop one from being under the illusion of Maya nor does it stop the ignorant from seeing only material nature ,.... thus we conscider it the great mercy of Krsna appearing in the form of Lord Chaitanya that opened the eyes of so many by giving access to the Chanting of Nama , ....


    "Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne, brāhmaṇe gavi hastini;
    śuni caiva śva-pāke ca, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ;" BG 5.18

    The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle bhramana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste] .


    True , .... yes we see the same paramatma in the heart of all beings , but that does not stop the ignorant from being blind nor some of the Muslims of that time from acting as oppressors , nor does it stop the Hindus of that day from unfairly descriminating against caste, ......other sects would not accept Sudras as deciples Chaiyanya seeing the paramatma at the heart of all beings saw no reason to discriminate nor did he turn away Muslims and gave initiation to Haridasa Thakur , .... it is this mercy that we celibrate , ....
     
    #11 ratikala, Sep 26, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  12. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Namaskaram Nitai Dasa ji , ..... @Aupmanyav ji

    I canot help but think again of what you said , .....''I am nothing without my Lords Sri Sri Gaur Nitai'' .....this is so different from the veiw that ultimatly we are all Brahman , there for some times it would appear that some think that this means we need not make effort , .....but to say that ''I am so utterly unqualified'' shows true Humility without which one canot even begin on the path of God consciousness , ....

    this reminds me very much of the time when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was traveling through very dangerous forests where there were many wild animals . Caitanya Mahaprabhu having no way to protect himself relied solely on the mercy of Krsna , thus he constantly chanted ''Hare Krishna Hare Krishna , Krishna Krishna Hare Hare , ... Hare Rama Hare Rama , Rama Rama Hare Hare , ....calling also , ...

    Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! Krishna! he
    Rama! Rama! Rama! Rama! Rama! Rama! Raghava!
    Krishna! Kesava! Krishna! Kesava! Krishna! Kesava! pahi mam
    Rama! Raghava! Rama Raghava! Rama! Raghava! raksa mam

    this pahi mam , ...Raksa mam I give my self totaly to you , .....protect me , this was like the cry of Draupadi who surrendered totaly to Krsna knowing that she herself was helpless , ......

    so this is why we as Gaudiya canot say I am Krsna , yes yes of course we have Paramatma at the heart but we are nothing in comparison to Krsna , we can only beg his mercy as Draupadi did , ......
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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  14. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Jai Jai , very nice to see pastimes of Sri Krsna , ....so you beleive Krsna actualy existed and lilas recorded are actual occurances , and you beleive that Krsna resides in the heart of all beings , yet you say you are atheist , ....still I do not understand , .....
    yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktah
    sraddhayarcitum icchati
    tasya tasyacalam sraddham
    tam eva vidadhamy aham


    I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity. .......B.G Ch ..7 V ..21


    jara-marana-moksaya
    mam asritya yatanti ye
    te brahma tad viduh krtsnam
    adhyatmam karma cakhilam

    Intelligent persons who are endeavoring for liberation from old age and death take refuge in Me in devotional service. They are actually Brahman because they entirely know everything about transcendental and fruitive activities.

    sadhibhutadhidaivam mam
    sadhiyajnam ca ye viduh
    prayana-kale 'pi ca mam
    te vidur yukta-cetasah
    Those who know Me as the Supreme Lord, as the governing principle of the material manifestation, who know Me as the one underlying all the demigods and as the one sustaining all sacrifices, can, with steadfast mind, understand and know Me even at the time of death. ........V ..29-30


    yet still we know that Krsna is very hard to understand , .....

    manusyanam sahasresu
    kascid yatati siddhaye
    yatatam api siddhanam
    kascin mam vetti tattvatah


    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth. ....Ch ..7 V ...3


    his countless forms are difficult to complrehend with the material mind , thus we may easily become bewildered , ...it is for this reason that we as Gaudiya rely upon Gaura Nitai who are none other that Krsna and Balarama who come taking the form of devotees in order to clense us of all delusions caused by our association with material nature , ...


     
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  15. निताइ dasa

    निताइ dasa Nitai's servant's servant

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    Jaya Jaya! I remember, in Jarkhanda forest...He made even the tigers and elephants dance in love. How merciful was that?? You are totally right...Draupadi's mood is so high. She cried to Krsna like a child cries for parent...that is why Krsna comes. The reason we are not seeing Krsna, is because we don't have even an atom of that desire. Actually after Krsna saved Draupadi, Draupadi asked Him "He Krsna, why did you have such a delay in saving me? The Kauravas had nearly derobed me, and You only saved me in the last moment. Why did You not come before that?" and to this the Lord replied: "You called Me by the Name of "Dwarakadish" (Lord of Dwarika) which is far away from Hastinarpur that is why it took me a bit long to come. If you had called me by the Name of Mathuranaresh (Lord of Mathura) or just Krsna I would have come more quickly!!

    And the best way to call Krsna is by glorifying His devotees!!! Krsna becomes so indebted to that person! There is a verse in Shatra (Brahmavaivarta purana) which says:

    'ra' sabdam kurvatas trasto dadami bhaktim uttamam
    'dha' sabdam kurvatah pascat yami sravana lobhatah

    (Lord Sri Krishna proclaims): ''The moment I hear the sound 'Ra' from anyone's lips, I grant them My supreme prema-bhakti. But the next moment when I hear the sound 'dha', I completely lose Myself and become intoxicated in Radha-nama. Because of My great longing to hear the name of My Beloved, I run after the devotees who chant Radha-nama.''

    Hehe and now that Krsna Himself is singing in the Mood of Radha as Chaitanya. What pastime is this???

    He Nitai! This first is so powerful. There are so many paths in this world, but who in reality can fully know the Lord? Without His mercy...no matter our academics, we can't know Him. When Lord Chaitanya was staying at the house of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, Sarvabhauma was speaking to Gopinath Acharya (a disciple of Lord Chaitanya). And Gopinath Acharya says to him "O Sarvabhauma simply by reading books, you cannot realize good. You have studied Vedanta all your life, but you have descended into the impersonal philosophies and thus failed to recognise that Narayana Himself is staying at your house" aahaha



    I really like this scene from Nilachale Mahaprabhu! Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya is furious at Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu because all He does is sing and dance (while according to Sarvabhauma a true sannayasi should mediate and read scripture). In response, Srivasa Thakur (the Lord's associate) sings this beautiful bhajan!
     
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