Garner Incident-if you can say "I can't breathe," guess what you can breathe

[JM2C]

How do we know this? Because during the hold Garner kept saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe". Well, guess what? If you can say repeatedly "I can't breathe", you can breathe.

Forensic pathologist said you could still talk and when Garner lost consciousness he stop talking, but he is not dead yet, but the cops were still putting pressure on him instead of resuscitating him.

He died mainly because of his health conditions; asthma, heart issues, etc.

I think the moral of the story is that if you have health problems, don't resist arrest.

Let the flames begin.

You should read the ME’s report.

 

[Storm]

Your inability to have a civil discussion on the topic is demonstrated fact.
Your denial of said fact merely fuels your emotional rants on the topic.


The thread was about the claim that talking means you can breathe.

You turned it into a race whine fest.



Actually he did claim that Ohio being an open carry state that people are allowed to wave their guns around pointing them at people.
I flat out asked him to provide a source where Ohio laws allows anyone, let alone a 12 year old , to do so.

It was completely ignored.



Bold faced lie.
In your emotionally unstable state of mind you are assigning positions to others based on your wanting to continue to rant.



I never made any such claim.
This is your strawman.



You took a thread about the claim that talking means you can breathe and turned it into a race whining thread.

Then you go on an emotional whine fest rant attacking your strawmen.
You really whooped the stramans ***.
Congratulations.

Are you able to get your emotions under control enough to continue with the thread topic or are you content derailing this thread with your emotional whine fest rants?

Whatever, Mestemia. I have no intention of humoring your dishonesty further. Don't bother responding, you're on ignore just as soon as I hit post.

 

[Storm]

Race seems to induce vision problems. If Garner were killed because he's black, then this raises a question about why a black police sergeant was reportedly involved? I notice that no major news outlet (that I've yet found) mentions this, but

That's what I meant when I said that it wasn't as simple as "they killed him because he was black," but all the demonization and excusing is because he was black. This always happens when the victim is black, always.

is this off limits?

Not off limits, but I think you've got it backwards. They're not portrayed as victims, but thugs who deserve what they get.

Are most people unconcerned with police militarization, increasing micro-regulation of our lives which creates a plethora of 'crimes' where there would otherwise be no wrongful act?

Deeply, yes. Black men are the canary inthe coal mine, and the rush to blame them for their own murders is beyond obscene.

If so, it would explain why there's no coverage of Obama's involvement in the militarization of police departments (gifting of military equipment).

Oh, come ON!

Look, as with many other things, Obama hasn't done near enough (anything) to stop this, but it started long befor he was in office. It's not his doing, Rev, unless you think he was issuing executive orders from grade school.

Question: Would we tolerate the growth of the police state if someone like McCain had won office?

Would? DID. Dubya was in office for a good stretch, his daddy before that, and St Reagan the now unelectable before that. Police militarization is not a new problem that sprung out of nowhere fully formed. It's been going on for decades, and it's gleefully bipartisan.

I suspect that just as we saw war protests ebb when Obama won, we see reluctance to criticize him for increasing domestic surveillance, continued foreign adventurism, increasing opacity in government, & persecution of whistle blowers. Racial politics obscures & overwhelms the larger issues.

No, partisan politics overwhelms those issues. "When you do it, it's evil. Soon as OUR guy is in office, it's totally necessary."

Like saying that it would be better under McCain.

 

[Storm]

No fundamental disagreement here....except that I see more spheres.

She said there were more than 2. How do you see more than more than?

[ETA: Sorry, I misread. Heather can correct me if I'm wrong here, but we're both big believers in intersectionality. So, there are definitely more issues (spheres) than racism at play. But racism on this level is one sphere of systemic oppression, as opposed to individual white or black people who just hate the other guys.]

Where does the supervision by a black police sergeant fit into this sphere of systemic racism?

It starts with the training, which drills an "us vs them" mentality into officers that's not based on race but officers and civilians. Then it gets reinforced throughout their careers.

And - not that it's any excuse - any one of them may have been afraid of reprisal. Just a while ago, an officer in another case was disciplined because he got a suicidal kid some water instead of smacking him around. There was another good cop who lost his job for not playing ball and recanting his testimony against fellow officers in a brutality case. I'm on my phone, so links are a pain, but I'll dig them up if you like.

Why is there no public outcry over her supervision of this killing?

In large part because nuance isn't inflammatory, absolutely. Also because that nuance requires us to look deeper.

Am I the only one advocating prosecution of all cops (both black & white) involved in this unjust killing of an innocent guy?

Absolutely not.

(Sorry for the shoddy editing, it's a pretty crappy phone....)

 

[Storm]

I can't find & quote the rules anymore in this new format, but such a personal attack sure seems to cross the line. I don't like the orig post either, but it can be addressed directly without making it about the poster & his religious leanings.

Hmmm. Mestemia called me a poverty pimp, meaning that not only do I not REALLY care about these killings, but I want them to continue because I am personally enriched by them, and that gets no reaction from you.

DS states someone's actual views for context, and that's over the line?

 

[Revoltingest]

They are listed in a different thread than the one they were in under the old software:

RF Rules | ReligiousForums.com

Don't worry about it being your "incompetence"; it even took an e-omniscient admin like me some time to find them.

Ah, there they are.....thanx! I need to review'm regularly, lest I run afoul of'm.

 

[Revoltingest]

Forensic pathologist said you could still talk and when Garner lost consciousness he stop talking, but he is not dead yet, but the cops were still putting pressure on him instead of resuscitating him.
You should read the ME’s report.

Aye, unless there's a claim of corruption or incompetence, I'll go with this report in determining the cause of death.

Hey, any news on what led to the decision to not prosecute the one cop or the others? That would be interesting. With the Ferguson grand jury decision, I see merit.....but not in this case. It looks like very clear evidence of criminal behavior behind the killing.

 

[Storm]

Aye, unless there's a claim of corruption or incompetence, I'll go with this report in determining the cause of death.

Hey, any news on what led to the decision to not prosecute the one cop or the others? That would be interesting. With the Ferguson grand jury decision, I see merit.....but not in this case. It looks like very clear evidence of criminal behavior behind the killing.

cI have to disagree about Ferguson, simply because the prosecution was so blatantly, possibly illegally, trying to get Wilson cleared that even Scalia had to come out and explain that it was completely botched.

I'm not a huge fan of Lawrence O'Donnell, but he exposed some truly mind boggling manipulations that damned well should be criminal if they aren't already, and the National Bar Association is calling for the federal DoJ to step in and do it right.

When the case itself is that mismanaged, I take it as a very bad sign.

Can't insert links properly, but here are some sources.

Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury | ThinkProgress

 

[CMike]

Uh huh. A TOY gun. In an open carry state. While white men brandish real guns and growl threats and somehow don't get shot without warning.

Brandishing is illegal.

In open carry you an legally carry a gun openly. Brandishing is a felony.

If you see an open carry brandishing, waving their gun in a threatening manner, call the police. If it does happen, it happens very rarely.



Black men can open carry too.

 

[CMike]

Can you present any law or code at all that empowers officers to shoot to kill a 12 year old without even attempting an arrest?

It's called protecting public safety.

The 12 year old was aiming a toy gun at people whom thought it was a real gun. The police had no way of knowing it was a toy gun.

 

[JM2C]

Aye, unless there's a claim of corruption or incompetence, I'll go with this report in determining the cause of death.

Hey, any news on what led to the decision to not prosecute the one cop or the others? That would be interesting. With the Ferguson grand jury decision, I see merit.....but not in this case. It looks like very clear evidence of criminal behavior behind the killing.

Totally different from the Brown's case. You can’t beat forensic evidence. In the Brown’s case the shooting was a justifiable act that causes Brown’s death supported by forensic evidence. The burning of Ferguson was not justifiable at all.

The Garner’s case, as his daughter said, was not about race, it’s about police brutality. This is not about race at all it’s about the right to life. When Eric Garner was uttering the “I can’t breathe” he was begging for his life, his right to life.

 

[CMike]

I didn't forget, I just don't answer loaded questions. We're not talking about 12 year olds carrying firearms, we are talking about 12 years olds carrying airsoft guns, which, in Ohio, there are no laws prohibiting the possession or use of.

The problem is that the people he was pointing the gun at didn't know it wasn't a real gun.

 

[Revoltingest]

Totally different from the Brown's case. You can’t beat forensic evidence. In the Brown’s case the shooting was a justifiable act that causes Brown’s death supported by forensic evidence. The burning of Ferguson was not justifiable at all.

The Garner’s case, as his daughter said, was not about race, it’s about police brutality. This is not about race at all it’s about the right to life. When Eric Garner was uttering the “I can’t breathe” he was begging for his life, his right to life.

I agree.

 

[CMike]

Yeah, I don't get it but we all know you're nothing like a poverty pimp. What an insulting term.

I'm holding back saying much more at this point. I still want to hear CMike's motive for this thread. I don't want to assume too much.

It's rather like him to start a fire like this, pour lighter fluid on the flames and then go home. I generally don't sit around the campfire and contribute because of this fact. Guess I'm a sucker sometimes.

My motive is simple.

It's been a big topic and I wanted to put in my $0.02 as I do in many topics.

I will say that in the Michael Brown case, Brown was a criminal whom assaulted, and was physically threatening a police officer.

In the Garner case, Garner was selling cigirattes. Is it really that big of a deal to get arrested for? I think he should have gotten a citation.

However, there were about five cops there. We didn't see what happened right before the video, and what led to that moment. That is critical too.

Garner said he has had several visits from the police.

How belligerent was he getting?

When you resist arrest you are going to be treated roughly, especially since the guy was so big.

My only point is that he wasn't chocked to death by the police officer. We know this because he was talking during this.

It's his other health problems that contributed to his demise.

I still don't think selling ciggis illegally is that big of a deal.

This had nothing to do with him being black.

 

[CMike]

When your struggling it's not uncommon for the chokehold to loosen just enough to utter that you can't breathe before the pressure is reapplied. You cannot be that dense, so as not to see that.

He was talking the entire time.

 

[CMike]

So, a supporter of the disgracefully racist Golda Meir and the distinguishably fascist worldview espoused by the fundamentalist followers of the most extreme strains of Orthodox Judaism is dismissing a clear-cut case of police brutality as a mere fault of the victim.

How surprising.

Not only that.

I proudly support Golda Meier and Orthodox Judaism.

It seems you can make deep, "highly intellectual" comments as well.

Very impressive.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Not only that.

I proudly support Golda Meier and Orthodox Judaism.

It seems you can make deep, "highly intellectual" comments as well.

Very impressive.

Well, thanks for demonstrating my point.

 

[CMike]

That's overly personal. This thread isn't about zionist thuggery, which will surely muddy the waters.

The personal attacks just show immaturity and lack of intellect.

 

[CMike]

Well, thanks for demonstrating my point.

You are welcome.

 

[Revoltingest]

The name calling just show immaturity and lack of intellect.

I find that the intellect is there, but that we all forget manners at times. DS is a good guy....& cute as the dickens.