Galatians 3:13

[Phantasman]

When you die (Jer 31:30), the spirit returns to God, the flesh remains in the grave. You will not be "changed" to incorruptible in a twinkling of an eye".

Jesus said the flesh profits "nothing". I could care less what the grave gets.

The "spirit" makes us alive, and through this life our "soul" is saved. This is the teaching of the Gospel.

When you know yourself, you see the difference between "soul" and "spirit" and the "mind" 's roll in being saved.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I am not sure Paul understood the Torah

I'm not insisting he does or not. We only have letters that he writes and not a continuous cache of them. We have no return letters, and we have no continuous dialogues. His argument may not be an argument at all.

It seems cut and dry to me

Just as I am an expert on Buddhism I suppose.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Jesus taught of the true Father, beyond all gods, including the one Moses spoke of. John 8

Ah now there's the gnostic! I knew it must have been in you somewhere. Yes, in a gnostic framework- Galatians 3:13 makes infinitely more sense. I'll give you that. Orthodox Christians however, will find it problematic to convince people.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Just as I am an expert on Buddhism I suppose.

Hey I wouldn't tell a non-Buddhist that they couldn't grasp the scriptures 'necessarily' if they picked them up to read them

 

[74x12]

Does the original passage in Deuteronomy seem to imply anything like this, or give such a one as Jesus instructions for this task? Again, this is an odd interpretation for Paul to make.

The Law is a legal document. Paul is treating it as it is. Deuteronomy actually doesn't put any stipulations on who is cursed or who is not cursed. The context is that it's simply stated as a fact explaining why the person must be taken down from the tree that day.

Right the one that says if anyone commits a sin that is worthy of death, this is what you do with them. Isn't this implying that Jesus broke the law? Otherwise, Paul is making a pretty big leap and taking some liberty with scriptural context.

I believe it doesn't imply that Jesus broke the Law. Paul is treating it as a legal document. So if the legal document says you're cursed by God if you hang on a tree; therefore Paul is taking that literally whether one has sinned or not. I think that is part of the point here. Jesus takes the curse even though He is sinless. That's the power of it. Because He does not deserve it; He has power. If He did deserve it; then He could have no power to overcome the curse.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

The Law is a legal document. Paul is treating it as it is. Deuteronomy actually doesn't put any stipulations on who is cursed or who is not cursed. The context is that it's simply stated as a fact explaining why the person must be taken down from the tree that day.

It seems to do in the very preceding verse. @RabbiO do you think this inference by Paul is odd? This is outside of typical Jewish commentating, no? Certainly, going beyond peshat?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The transformation of the mind necessary for you to believe Paul, is called double mindedness/hypocrisy, and is best portrayed in Romans 7:25. No one escapes death for their own transgressions (Jeremiah 31:30). Paul is dead, so his "we" shall be "changed" didn't happen.

Clearly you don't understand the change and how the law of faith in Christ brings us the mind if Christ. Of course Paul died. Only Enoch and Elijha escaped physical death here on earth yet they still had to have a new body to dwell with God.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Clearly you don't understand the change and how the law of faith in Christ brings us the mind if Christ. Of course Paul died. Only Enoch and Elijha escaped physical death here on earth yet they still had to have a new body to dwell with God.

It's not that I don't understand what Christians are implying. I'm not convinced this interpretation of Deuteronomy is correct. I have yet to be convinced by Christians I've spoken to over the years that Paul was quoting Deuteronomy with correct context. This should be concerning to Christians if he was not.

 

[Phantasman]

Ah now there's the gnostic! I knew it must have been in you somewhere. Yes, in a gnostic framework- Galatians 3:13 makes infinitely more sense. I'll give you that. Orthodox Christians however, will find it problematic to convince people.

Gnostics can come in different flavors as well. But the ideology is the same. Truth is everywhere, spoken by many, experienced by many in spiritual understanding. Gnosis just means knowledge. Words can mislead because they can be altered.

Ask a person "why does God allow babies to die" and you can tell by their answers if they understand Spirit or not.

I believe you may know that Christian Gnostics and Buddhists share a similar spiritual understanding, even if the words are heard differently. I know I do.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I believe you may know that Christian Gnostics and Buddhists share a similar spiritual understanding, even if the words are heard differently. I know I do.

I belong to a universalist school of Buddhism that follows the Lotus Sutra- teaching that the Buddha saves beings through countless ways that might even seem contradictory. I've often imagined Christian mysticism as one of these ways for the similar insight mystics get to Buddhist sages. I don't see why not gnosticism, though there are many variants.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I know Paul argued that, I'm just not sure it washes.

It it that you do not see a correlation between law and death?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

It it that you do not see a correlation between law and death?

Not in the way Paul sees it. I think Paul was doing some far-reaching. The preceding verse in Deuteronomy seems to clarify the context without any expounding. It says that death is the penalty for 'death-worthy' transgressions, but it doesn't suggest anything more profoundly theological than that, as concerns the law itself.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It's not that I don't understand what Christians are implying. I'm not convinced this interpretation of Deuteronomy is correct. I have yet to be convinced by Christians I've spoken to over the years that Paul was quoting Deuteronomy with correct context. This should be concerning to Christians if he was not.

I would need more specific references in order to address this.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
Basically, the questions I would ask Christians stem from the underlined parts of the verse.
Question 1: What is the curse pronounced by the law?
Question 2: What scripture is this written in?
Question 3: What scripture is the tree detail referencing?
This verse has always appeared as an odd argument to me on Paul's part.

I find at Leviticus 18:4-5 that the Israelites were to 'live' by God's Law ( or be cursed ).
The Jews were to live by that Constitution of the Mosaic Law.
So, ' to live ' would sound good that the Law was there for their life. It would be a life-giving hope for them.
Instead, the Law showed everyone that we are all imperfect, or are sinners, thus life could Not come by the Law.
More was necessary, and Paul recognized more than the Law was necessary at Galatians 3:21-24.
Paul recognized a need for a redeemer to come and redeem us as per Galatians 3:19; Genesis 3:15.
So, Christ was the necessary one who released them and us from that 'curse' as mentioned at Deuteronomy 21:22-23.
So, the ' curse ' brought on by breaking God's Law, then it was Jesus who removed that curse or barrier to life ( eternal life ) for the Jews and for the rest of us.
So the ' tree ' Scriptures of Galatians 3:13, and Acts of the Apostles 5:30; Acts of the Apostles 10:39 is referencing Deuteronomy 21:22-23.

 

[Faithofchristian]

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Basically, the questions I would ask Christians stem from the underlined parts of the verse.

Question 1: What is the curse pronounced by the law?

Question 2: What scripture is this written in?

Question 3: What scripture is the tree detail referencing?


This verse has always appeared as an odd argument to me on Paul's part.

To answer your first and second question.

what is the curse pronounced by the law.
It is written, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"
Galatians 3:10

The book of the law that is being made mention of by Paul, You will find in the book of Deuteronomy Chapter 30.
This being the book of the law which Paul speaks about in Galatians Chapter 3.

The Curse which Paul is speaking about in Galatians Chapter 3, is the law of Circumcision,

As Paul Written in Galatians 3:11
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith"
If a person is Circumcised or not, they are not justified by the law of Circumcision, but justified by their faith in God.

As for your question 3, The tree is in reference to the cross of Christ Jesus.

The cross was made form a tree, which the wood of the tree was cut out to form the cross.

 

[InChrist]

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Basically, the questions I would ask Christians stem from the underlined parts of the verse.

Question 1: What is the curse pronounced by the law?

Question 2: What scripture is this written in?

Question 3: What scripture is the tree detail referencing?


This verse has always appeared as an odd argument to me on Paul's part.

My perspective is that the OT must be read in light of the NT, as this reveals more of the big picture God intends for us to see. Originally in Genesis, the curse of death entered the world because of sin. I believe physical death is a picture of a more serious, death which is the separation between the person and God, the life-giving Creator. When God called the nation of Israel as a chosen people, gave them laws and the promised physical land, this was also a picture I believe which reveals the bigger promise of an eternal spiritual land to all who believe by faith, as Abraham did, and are therefore chosen to enter this eternal promised land. I think Paul had this overall larger picture in mind when he quoted from Deuteronomy in Galatians 3:13.

If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. Deut. 21:23

The passage in Deuteronomy, which Paul quoted, refers to the penalty being hanging on tree for the one who sins deserving of death. In Romans it is stated that for...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (3:23) and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (6:23). This goes along with the Gen. account that all humanity is under the curse of death, physical and spiritual, because of sin.

Paul realized and was teaching that all were under the curse of death because all were sinful and failed to keep the law. Yet, Christ kept the law and bore the sins of all on the cross (tree) so that all may have eternal life instead of death. The passage (in Deut.) also reveals that God did not want the physical land which was the inheritance defiled by sin and death, so the eternal heavenly land will have no sin, nor death.

 

[Grandliseur]

Sounds like a good argument from the son of hell, the son of the Satan, Paul, to get you to continue in your sins

Many think that when the new covenant came, it meant that all the laws of the Mosaic law were abolished, that is not what happened. The Law of Faith which replaced it - had many of the foundation laws transferred into it.

Some can understand this, others not. You have the right to your opinion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

My perspective is that the OT must be read in light of the NT, as this reveals more of the big picture God intends for us to see. Originally in Genesis, the curse of death entered the world because of sin. I believe physical death is a picture of a more serious, death which is the separation between the person and God, the life-giving Creator. When God called the nation of Israel as a chosen people, gave them laws and the promised physical land, this was also a picture I believe which reveals the bigger promise of an eternal spiritual land to all who believe by faith, as Abraham did, and are therefore chosen to enter this eternal promised land. I think Paul had this overall larger picture in mind when he quoted from Deuteronomy in Galatians 3:13.

If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. Deut. 21:23

The passage in Deuteronomy, which Paul quoted, refers to the penalty being hanging on tree for the one who sins deserving of death. In Romans it is stated that for...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (3:23) and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (6:23). This goes along with the Gen. account that all humanity is under the curse of death, physical and spiritual, because of sin.

Paul realized and was teaching that all were under the curse of death because all were sinful and failed to keep the law. Yet, Christ kept the law and bore the sins of all on the cross (tree) so that all may have eternal life instead of death. The passage (in Deut.) also reveals that God did not want the physical land which was the inheritance defiled by sin and death, so the eternal heavenly land will have no sin, nor death.

So with everything that you given, how does that fit into the book of the law, which Paul spoke about in Galatians 3:10.

Which the book of the law is found in the book of Deuteronomy 30, which Moses instructed Joshua to read to the people of Israel every sabbath day.

So can you explain exactly how sin and death fits into the book of the law, Unto which Moses written nothing about in the book of the law in Deuteronomy 30

 

[Grandliseur]

Tell that to James. (James 2:18 - 22).

The Mosaic law was one that did not demand faith, it demanded unyielding works and sinning had a wage, death. Even Ezekiel clearly stated that.

The New Covenant, the Law of Faith - had an important legal change. Works were now demanded to prove one's faith, no longer did one act of mistake, sin - condemn the sinner to death since the faith in the cleansing effects of the ransom handled that.

So, the Law (Moses) demanded works to live, if even one of the laws were broken, death was guaranteed.
The Law of Faith, New Covenant, demands works of faith, good works, when proving that a person has faith, faith in the ransom of Christ, one sin, even many - do not cause death. The practice of willful serious sin deliberately knowing that it is a sin that leads to death when practiced makes a person into a son of the devil. This now damns for all eternity.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Many think that when the new covenant came, it meant that all the laws of the Mosaic law were abolished, that is not what happened. The Law of Faith which replaced it - had many of the foundation laws transferred into it.

Some can understand this, others not. You have the right to your opinion.

If I may say, there were no laws abolished,
The law of animal sacrifices and the sacrificial lamb offering was fulfilled by Christ Jesus at the cross.

Once Christ Jesus came, we no longer have to give animal sacrifices for our sins, We go right to God the Father thru Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is no where written that any of the laws were abolished. Only fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Once the law was fulfilled they came to an end.

 

[Grandliseur]

↑
"Ezekiel 20:11 “‘“And I proceeded to give them my statutes; and my judicial decisions I made known to them, in order that the man who keeps doing them might also keep living by them."
Ezekiel 20:11 sums up perfectly what I would respond here. That it doesn't seem to imply what Paul thinks. It means Jews are to live by the law. Why infer it means anything further?

↑
"God built into the Mosaic law a law for the sake of cursing the perfect Christ. In a sense, it was a trick law:"
The passage doesn't carry language that would even suggest that. See my response to @Brickjectivity

Well, as I said, it was a Christian viewpoint I explained.

Once you begin with disagreeing with Paul or others, there is really nothing to discuss from my side. since Paul was educated at the feet of a famous Rabbi, and was given special knowledge in revelation by Christ, I cannot begin to question his logic and interpretation of scripture.

What is - is, what isn't - is not.