G.W. Bush's Idealism is Winning the World

[Debunker]

Yes, the means he used to attain them. I am not talking about the press or conspiracy theories against the so called "liberal press".
I am talking about reality.
I am not here to defend Obama. I do believe he is better that the alternative, however he does not represent all Liberal ideals.

The point I am trying to make is that you, and other hero worshipers, Conservative or Liberal, seem to ignore the "means" and "failures" and focus only on the "achievements".

This is disingenuous and dishonest.

You call me a hero worshiper. I don;t know if that is trolling or not but I am not insulted easily but I don't think you meant to compliment me. I do have my heroes and I think that is a good thing.

Are you suggesting that I should focus on "failures" in life and politics than successes? That is what I am treading that is what you said. We should focus on achievements and not our failures and that would be the opinion of every sane psychologist and motivational speaker in the world. How did you ever arrive at such a perverted view from the rest of us or do I still misunderstand what you are saying to me? I would really like to know.

 

[Debunker]

Only in your own mind.
but that if that is good enough for you, who am I to argue?

Are you trolling? That was a post 10 pages ago to my Christian brother AE and had nothing to do with anything. I was simply changing the pace of the thread in order to focus on the subject of this thread. I win the argument when attention is kept on the thread. But to answer your question with a question, who are you to argue? Since you have maid no post on this thread, I ow you no answer whatever.

 

[Amill]

So we're supposed to invade every country that doesn't hold our values? And if GWB is such an idealist and patriot, why didn't he just tell us that we were invading Iraq to free their people? Why didn't we invade until Iraq allegedly had possession of WMDs or the materials for them?

 

[McBell]

Are you trolling? That was a post 10 pages ago to my Christian brother AE and had nothing to do with anything. I was simply changing the pace of the thread in order to focus on the subject of this thread. I win the argument when attention is kept on the thread. But to answer your question with a question, who are you to argue? Since you have maid no post on this thread, I ow you no answer whatever.

you have a short memory.
Perhaps you should go back and reread the thread...

I have merely presented to this thread all that it is worth.

have a nice day.

 

[Debunker]

So we're supposed to invade every country that doesn't hold our values? And if GWB is such an idealist and patriot, why didn't he just tell us that we were invading Iraq to free their people? Why didn't we invade until Iraq allegedly had possession of WMDs or the materials for them?

That is exactly what he told you. That is what the almost 100% Congress of the USA told you. That is what the UN told you. That is what all our allies told you. We had no reason to believe any other facts about Iraq. It is amazing and most illogical to blame only Bush for Iraq. How many times does this have to be explained to you until you get the idea that your hate for GWB is unjust? Much of our mission in Iraq has been a success and only a blind person would deny that with what is happening in the Middle East today.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yes, the means he used to attain them. I am not talking about the press or conspiracy theories against the so called "liberal press".
I am talking about reality.
I am not here to defend Obama. I do believe he is better that the alternative, however he does not represent all Liberal ideals.

The point I am trying to make is that you, and other hero worshipers, Conservative or Liberal, seem to ignore the "means" and "failures" and focus only on the "achievements".

This is disingenuous and dishonest.

You call me a hero worshiper. I don;t know if that is trolling or not but I am not insulted easily but I don't think you meant to compliment me. I do have my heroes and I think that is a good thing.

Are you suggesting that I should focus on "failures" in life and politics than successes? That is what I am treading that is what you said. We should focus on achievements and not our failures and that would be the opinion of every sane psychologist and motivational speaker in the world. How did you ever arrive at such a perverted view from the rest of us or do I still misunderstand what you are saying to me? I would really like to know.

Really/ How could you misconstrue and misrepresent what I said so completely?

I did not say to forget the achievements and focus on the failures.
I said...
"The point I am trying to make is that you, and other hero worshipers, Conservative or Liberal, seem to ignore the "means" and "failures" and focus only on the "achievements"."

Is that really so hard to understand?

 

[Debunker]

Really/ How could you misconstrue and misrepresent what I said so completely?

I did not say to forget the achievements and focus on the failures.
I said...
"The point I am trying to make is that you, and other hero worshipers, Conservative or Liberal, seem to ignore the "means" and "failures" and focus only on the "achievements"."

Is that really so hard to understand?

Try giving an example.

 

[ninerbuff]

That is exactly what he told you. That is what the almost 100% Congress of the USA told you. That is what the UN told you. That is what all our allies told you. We had no reason to believe any other facts about Iraq. It is amazing and most illogical to blame only Bush for Iraq. How many times does this have to be explained to you until you get the idea that your hate for GWB is unjust? Much of our mission in Iraq has been a success and only a blind person would deny that with what is happening in the Middle East today.

Actually I think that Bush did what he needed to do.....get the guy who tried to get his dad, but at the expense of US money.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... Fox just pointed out ...

You could have stopped right there.

 

[Amill]

That is exactly what he told you. That is what the almost 100% Congress of the USA told you. That is what the UN told you. That is what all our allies told you. We had no reason to believe any other facts about Iraq. It is amazing and most illogical to blame only Bush for Iraq. How many times does this have to be explained to you until you get the idea that your hate for GWB is unjust? Much of our mission in Iraq has been a success and only a blind person would deny that with what is happening in the Middle East today.

You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not even blaming Bush for the mess up with the wmds. I'm asking why, since Bush is such an idealist, did he not invade solely because he wanted to free their people? If it was for the people, why did the subject of freeing them not even come up until we thought they had wmds or the means to build them? Please, they don't care, the UN's sanctions on Iraq in the 90s led to thousands and thousands of innocent deaths. You know what that means? It means having Iraq pay reparations, eliminate wmds, and playing by their rules was more important to the US and the UN than making sure hundreds of thousands of children have food. Some values we're trying to spread.

Also, how many lives are alright to take while we try to provide people of other countries with rights and freedoms similar to ours?

 

[Luminous]

The network that OBL formed in the 80's, to the extent it can even be called that, wasn't a terrorist network at the time. It had the general goal of 'lifting the word of God', but its specific activity was directed at supporting the mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets.

After Desert Storm, when OBL denounced the presence of US troops on Saudi soil. (The troops were there at Saudi invitation because of the war.) OBL was banished to Sudan and began to undertake terrorist planning. This was in the last few months of Bush I's term.

OBL hadn't done anything anti-Western until then, but talk. There was nothing for Bush I to respond to, unless you believe in political assassination for protest, which I sure don't.

The fact remains that "Bush's Idealism" is not winning the world.

 

[Luminous]

I agree with Rev. Rick that you make a valid point but do you also miss the valid point that the liberal journalist's condemnation of Bush does not come from fact but a strong prejudice of political biases? You speak of the "means he used to attain them" but when GWB began his journey into Iraq, he had the almost unanimous support of all Democrats and liberals.

*cough cough, OBAMA

It was a planned strategy to make the war in Iraq a Republican war so the Democrats could take the government.

PLEASE point those people out, they clearly destroyed us by planning to let Bush fail.

Although the people understood this strategy and re-elected Bush to a second term, The liberal press and many politicians still like to blame GWB for all of their political failures.

who's failures? The Democratic Parties CIA?

Obama often refers to the alleged failures of Bush to explain his failures.

that is correct, which ones specifically?

condemnation specifically always comes from prejudice.
The condemnation of Bush the second, comes from people's prejudices against his believes, actions, and occurences.
As does condemnation of Obama.
I don't like or dislike Obama because he is a very weak liberal.
I dislike Bush because i didn't like what he did, what he believed, or what happened while he was president. If one of his plans was to bring down his Allies in Egypt and spread liberalism throughout the middle east...I seriously do not see why he ran for president of the United States of America. instead of some position in the UN. where because of his rash hawkish actions geographically and economically, he is very unwelcome.

 

[Luminous]

That is exactly what he told you. That is what the almost 100% Congress of the USA told you. That is what the UN told you. That is what all our allies told you. We had no reason to believe any other facts about Iraq. It is amazing and most illogical to blame only Bush for Iraq. How many times does this have to be explained to you until you get the idea that your hate for GWB is unjust? Much of our mission in Iraq has been a success and only a blind person would deny that with what is happening in the Middle East today.

what say has congress in national intelligence?
they are far too busy running for office.
who told the UN?
The fact remains that W. Bush's Idealism barely existed and is NOT winning the world...Thank God.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... but when GWB began his journey into Iraq, he had the almost unanimous support of all Democrats and liberals...

See, Debunker - this is a perfect example of why listening to Faux News gets people like you into trouble. You make the claim above, based on what you are listening to, without doing any homework of your own. You simply repeat the talking points that they spew at you, and then turn around and make such idiotic claims as the one above. Let's take a quick look at the ACTUAL VOTING RECORD of Congress, in regards to the Iraq Resolution:
In the US House of Representatives, 82 Democrats voted in support of allowing the President to take us into Iraq, while 126 voted against the resolution (1 did not vote).
In the Senate, 29 Democrats voted for it, and 21 voted against.
That totals 111 Democratic votes FOR the resolution, and 147 AGAINST the resolution (with one not voting).

As you can see, your statement above is not only wrong, it is a flat out lie. Bush did NOT have "almost unanimous support of all Democrats and liberals" - he didn't even have the support of the majority of Democrats.

Having not read the bulk of your posts (I haven't been back that long, nor am I inclined to read your version of Glenn Beck's talking points), I can only assume that your diatribes are all equally well researched by yourself. What a sad commentary that is on the positions you espouse.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Try giving an example.

The OP