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Featured Future of religions

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Jimmy, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Depends on what you think is being religious. One persons definition of religiosity is different to another. Its subjective.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I did not say everyone in the world will become Baha'is. By the time there is one religion that religion might be called something else.

    I take it literally because I believe that Baha'u'llah is infallible, and He wrote... If God ordains something it has to happen eventually.

    “That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”
    The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91
     
  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    How do you define religious and based on your definition, what is your observation? Are Muslims arabs becoming more religious or less religious?
    Do they practice religion? Do they say their Prayers, fast, pay zakaat, khoms, go to mosque regularly, do not commit adultery, do not commit fornication, do not drink alcohol, do not eat pork, women cover their hair,...etc.
     
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  4. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    That is understandable
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    When you say Arabs which country or society are you specifically referring to?

    Please do not use the word "Practice religion" and then make a case where you have defined what is "practicing religion" by your own terms. Again, its subjective.
     
  6. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. How do you define practicing religion of Islam?
    Whichever arab country (if any), that you have your observation.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Sorry sis. I am not gonna go defining what is "practicing religion". No way. Its subjective and I am not God to read peoples minds because there are 7 billion people in this world and one and a half or more so called muslims.

    Anyway, If you are specifically talking about prayer, lets take the Friday prayer. thajme yawm jumma.

    Going to the mosque as a dogmatic practice of Fardh or compulsory practice has increased through time. The earliest Sunni school of though Maliki, Imam Malik Ibn Annas from the school of Medina who is the earliest, and most authoritative with the golden chain of hadith and fikh didnt go to the mosque at all for decades. So the practice has increased.

    Since you are focusing on Arabs who are about 1/5 of Muslims for some reason, if you go to Syria, ladies party in the streets at daytime. Yet if you are focusing on some kind of ritualistic practice that is in your mind as it seems is being religious, things like wearing a head scarf, covering their faces etc etc has drastically increased in recent times. This kind of practice has always been on the rise since the 7th century. The later it is, the more ritualistic they have become.

    The Muslim world as a whole collectively is becoming more dogmatic in their ritualistic practices. Its on the rise.
     
  8. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I see it too. There will come a time when religion will become obsolete. To survive they will have to do like science and correct those errors. Given enough time people will not be able to ignore the errors. On the other hand, it seems like this is some time away, but it will happen.

    That's what I see. It's very clear!!
     
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  9. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    No, you are not supposed to define what is practicing religion of Islam. But, for sure, you can know some important practices of Islam from the Quran!
    Maybe you haven't read the Quran yet.

    No, do not read people mind. But for sure, you can have your own observation. Everyone has their own observation. You hear what your muslim friends, relatives, neighbors think about Islam nowadays. If they take it serious or not. Things like that. You can observe the behaviour and sayings of Muslims on the internet and social media. All that, would be your own observation! Nothing too difficult.


    Sure. Although, nowadays, going to mosques, has become more politically motivated, than actually ethically motivated.

    I quote wikipedia:

    "Studies of US Muslims have consistently shown a positive correlation between mosque attendance and political involvement."
    Mosque - Wikipedia



    .
    This is in line with what the Prophet said:
    "There will come a time for my people when… the mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance".(Ibn Babuya, Thawab ul-A'mal)

    .
    I don't focus on Arabs. Since I think you are an Arab, I asked you about Arabs.
    But, I dont know, where you get the idea, Arabs are 1/5 of all Muslims.




    .
    Is this from your own observation, or from an actual survey?
    Look at for example, saudia, recently, women got some new rights, that they never had before in Islamic culture.

    .
    Not in Iran, as I know about it alot. They are becoming more irreligious, comparing to 30 years ago.
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That, sure, is funny. Even I have read Qur'an.
    You believe in prophets, messengers, manifestations, mahdis sent by Allah. I do not even believe is existence of God / Allah. Just like Bahaollah, these people have said what suited them at that time. It is a sales talk. It is not that future was known to them.
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Yeah sis. You maybe right. Maybe I haven't read the Qur'an yet. So lets leave it at that recognising your manner.

    Mayne in your world, not in mine.

    Yeah maybe.

    Yep. It is observation, not survey.

    Great.
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    A bit of humility doesn't really hurt anyone.

    Since you like Wikipedia. This is what it says "About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries".

    Islam by country - Wikipedia

    See, you generalised "Saudi Arabia" to Islamic culture very easily and said "never" when Muhammed lived 1,400 years ago and there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Also, how is that relevant to this "religiosity of Muslims" question? You have associated denigration of women's rights to religiosity and if rights are established its not religious.

    YOur contention above.

    1. Women's rights = Not Religious
    2. No women's rights = Religious

    What are you aiming at? Im curious to know.

    Another generalisation. You are associating a study in the U.S, without even reading the study to all muslims with one brush. Your statement "nowadays, going to mosques, has become more politically motivated" to speak of 1.6 billion Muslims and you showed a wikipedia sentence of a research paper you have never read in your entire life by the way you projected it, taking around 10.7 error margin of a 1% population in one country. Shallow.

    Also, any religious institution has always been used for civic engagement. In the U.S the evangelical church is used for presidents campaigns. So what are you trying to get at?

    What are you really trying to argue for? Why not say it plainly?
     
    #152 firedragon, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  13. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Good you finally backed it up with something.
    Yes, they live in Arab countries. What about all those Arab muslims who do not live in Arab countries?

    Well, traditionally, Muslim women had less involvement in society than men. This was part of the Islamic culture. They were more in homes, raising kids. In some Arab countries, women could not even drive a car.
    So, for Islamic culture, a religious woman is one who is conservative, covering hair, staying home, obeying husband, just raising kids. But, now things has been changing in some of the Arab countries. This tells us, these countries are moving toward secularism, and getting far from Traditionsal islamic culture.

    Just look at the worldwide Muslim community, as can be seen in multimedia. Groups like, Taliba in Afghanistan, to Lebanon Hezbollah, to Iran to yemen, to Iraq.... look at their religious leaders, who always speak of fighting against other Muslims, or against Israel and USA. That tells us, there are many extremists in Islam worldwide. Often, in Friday prayer, in middle eastern countries, the prayer lead, also gives some speeches. What are those speeches about? Well, I can tell you, many of them includes some political subjects. So, they dont go to Mosques to worship God, and learn ethics, and make a more peaceful world, rather speeches that cause more war and conflicts.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Hmm. Okay. So what about them?

    Wrong. You are making a judgment which is the anecdotal fallacy. And again, you are hellbent in making Saudi your ideal Muslim society in your effort to do what ever you are intending to do. Anyway, what's your point?

    So what's your point?
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Read Esposito. Wikipedia is one of the most shallow places to get education. It does provide a synopsis, but not enough to get an in-depth understanding of any subject. Unless of course you aim only shallow exploration. If you want some good information read a bit.
     
  16. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    I searched the web for Esposito, and I came up with various people whose last name was Esposito, What or who are you referring to?
     
  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I will give you and answer to your post from the Baha'i Writings which I see is how the future will unfold for all Faiths and those yet with no Faith.

    Shoghi Effendi wrote:

    "The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baháʼu'lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded…"
    "A world federal system, ruling the whole earth and exercising unchallengeable authority over its unimaginably vast resources, blending and embodying the ideals of both the East and the West, liberated from the curse of war and its miseries, and bent on the exploitation of all the available sources of energy on the surface of the planet, a system in which Force is made the servant of Justice, whose life is sustained by its universal recognition of one God and by its allegiance to one common Revelation—such is the goal towards which humanity, impelled by the unifying forces of life, is moving."
    (Shoghi Effendi, The Unfoldment of World Civilization, 1936)

    Regards Tony
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    John L Esposito.
     
  19. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    John L. Esposito: Apologist for Wahhabi Islam
    By Stephen Schwartz
    Three things are immediately obvious when one examines the biography of John Louis Esposito, American academic expert on Islam. The first is that -- as noted by his official biographical listing of more than forty-five books and monographs, along with his standing as editor of several reference series -- he seems indefatigably prolific, though the bulk of his writings present interpretations of contemporary phenomena rather than original research. The second is that he luxuriates in honors, including those bestowed by the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and other parties in whose objectivity about Islamic affairs few can believe. Finally, his work has provided an unremitting "explanation" that amounts to a committed defense of radical, rather than traditional, Islam. Esposito aspires to become the chief interlocutor between the U.S., if not the West as a whole, and the Muslim lands -- especially the extremist elements in Islamic societies.

    John L. Esposito: Apologist for Wahhabi Islam
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Ah so you searched and found something to say. Great achievement. Especially for someone who didnt know about this man, quick searches to condemn the man, but not the argument presented that specifically referred his work even in the same wikipedia sources provided by the other person I was responding to.

    Yet, that's not relevant. Because what I was quoting from him was that the Arab nations represents about 20% of all Muslims. Thus, your effort is just a straw man, but with some effort. Maybe you should find some source that provides some statistics that say "Arabs dont represent 20% of Muslims" because that would be the only argument that would invalidate what I said. Maybe you didnt know what I was referring to since you dropped in.

    Its like saying you dont follow the dictionary because the creator of the dictionary had an affair with his maid.
     
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