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Fundamentalists

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Unveiled Artist, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Fundamentalists, evangelists, etc how do you guys feel or opinion about people referring to you in (what seems to me) with those words in a deragatory way?

    Do you identify (by nature of telling others about scripture not you as a person) with one of the two words (if not others)?
     
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  2. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ is not a fanatic, but the fundamentalist: "I know where I came from" (to my memory, Bible)
     
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  3. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I don't care if people want to call me this.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I'm not connecting the reference.
     
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Are you a fundamentalist?
     
  6. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    To some folks I may be seen as such in my religious views. I associate with fundamentalists.
     
  7. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    There are 3 common misunderstandings of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some consider them (1)Protestants, (2)Fundamentalists, others a (3)sect.

    To clear up confusion about such:

    1. Jehovah's Witnesses do not agree with certain unscriptural teachings of the Protestants as they do with the Catholics. A few examples, the Bible does not teach a Hellfire where God burns people, that the soul is immortal, or to meddle in politics.

    2. Fundamentalist Protestantism in the United States has grown large, and those groups have adopted social and political stances based on literal use of Biblical texts. Jehovah's Witnesses do not involve themselves in social movements or politics. They prefer to converse with people, one-on-one as early Christians did,, reasoning with evidence from the scriptures.

    3. The definition of a sect is a group that dissents from a religious community or breaks away. Jehovah's Witnesses have not broken away from any Church. So they are not a sect of Christendom either.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I honestly wouldn't have known on RF. Hm.
     
  9. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    It's interesting how the word 'fundamentalist' has been used over the last 45 years in some old and new ways.

    When I was an adolescent, the way the word fundamentalist would first be used to my ears (way back in the 70s) might be for something like a religious woman who will always wear a head scarf to cover her hair, because of 'fundamentalist' beliefs. Or for the wacky and rare 'young earth creationists' (YEC) which at that time way back in the southern plains of the U.S. were actually only people you heard about in a distance, and even at our little country church no one would ever say the 'young earth' nonsense (YEC is in reality a speculative theory invented by added ideas (that aren't anywhere in the text) inserted into interpretation of Genesis chapters 1-3).

    So, back then, to me, 'fundamentalists' were people that had some odd belief, or sometimes might be simple minded or confused or wacky. Not necessarily bad people mind you!, but off kilter in that way (and everyone has their own flaws).

    When Islamic terrorists starting attacking the U.S. such as in 1996, bin Laden's declaration of war on the U.S. in 1998, etc., these were called 'Islamic fundamentalist', or sometimes 'militants' and so the word 'fundamentalist' got repurposed in effect to mean those willing to kill others for some mistaken idea.

    So, for example, the Khmer Rouge that murdered millions in Cambodia for ideology were then 'fundamentalists' also...

    Notice how big a change in meaning happened there! Instead of being sweet but wacky, now 'fundamentalists' were murderous and horrific.

    By association.

    So, if someone tries to label one of us a 'fundamentalist', it's probably an attempt to paint on some extra connotation like that, to attempt to suggest (or just outright slander that) the person isn't merely dedicated to an ideology, but instead is more sharply doing wrong.

    So, it'd be disingenuous for us I think to just use the basic denotation of the word as someone that hews to principles (as if there is no connotation). By that meaning a scientist is a fundamentalist.
     
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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I haven't kept up. Evangelical Fundamentalism is from late 19th century and one of its main features is biblicism. Most people when speaking of a fundamentalist Christian are thinking about Christian biblicism.

    Christian fundamentalism | American Protestant movement

    What is a Biblicist? What is Biblicism? | GotQuestions.org

    Not everybody who takes the bible as their sole doctrine is an evangelical, and the term 'Fundamentalist' can misconstrue that. Biblicist may be more specific, however some feel it is an aspersion. I'm not sure why that is or how it comes about. Sometimes people need some way to identify who believes what, but that isn't easy.

    Furthermore 'Fundamentalist' is also used sometimes to refer to Muslims, because there is this an idea that there is a reformed Islam versus a fundamentalist Islam. I don't know if its a modern idea or what. Then in that case when someone says 'Fundamentalist Muslim' they probably think they are talking about Muslims who are fully observant, who do what their imams advise and so forth. Its very foggy terminology, but what is the alternative? All Muslims are the same?
     
  11. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    The secular use of the word 'fundamentalist' -- that I definitely know how its evolved in popular usage -- from columnists or show hosts using an adjective in a derogatory way. Just like the word 'liberal' became an aspersion, so that in recent years often people that are in no way at all similar to American liberalism of the past now attacked with the label, to intentionally mischaracterize them, such as if they merely point out something Trump does wrong. That's not theoretical. Someone in my own extended family I know very well my whole life suggested I was a "liberal" because I pointed out something Trump did that was wrong in a group email discussion. I'm much closer to being libertarian-conservative with only a few positions that are 'liberal', and I'd be a sore disappointment to a truly leftist/liberal person. The label 'liberal' was basically an aspersion in effect. In this case, I'm pretty sure he was just repeated some rhetoric from a Fox News talk show it seems (he seems to often be sending us typical talk show stuff) == as in a Fox News talk show, whoever says some objection to something Trump does 'hates' Trump or is a 'liberal' even if they are not liberal, and don't hate Trump, etc.

    It's meant to close down/slander valid objections. Like Trump does to people that leave his administration due to differences and/or tell the truth about something Trump did, then Trump slanders them to try to prevent people listening to what they say.
     
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    What about the terms 'Biblicism' and 'Biblicist'? What is a better way to say it?
     
  13. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Most people I meet IRL would struggle to separate Shia, Sunni and Quranist, let alone anything more nuanced.
     
  14. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    Well...we know that every individual is unique, and plenty of that uniqueness will be in the individual level of understanding and beliefs. So, labels only have a very limited use, because they never really describe much about a person accurately.

    I've been in more than a few discussions where someone was claiming their position was 'biblical' and the idea they had was not biblical in a full way, but an idea/prejudice/doctrine and some isolated verse(s) that didn't mean what the person thought they meant when we read the full context of the passage and book they are from. What they thought was 'biblical' was merely an invention. Instead of relying on the Bible, they were relying on ignoring the Bible and using it like a prop with some isolated verse(s) that had a whole different actual meaning than they wanted to portray. So, I've noticed that such labels often just are inaccurate to begin with, and paint a wrong picture pretty often.
     
  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I see a distinct divide between someone who believes that the Christian scriptures teach not to judge what other people think about the scriptures and someone who believes that you must absolutely do so. I think this was the division in the American church going back to post Civil War, temporarily put aside during WWI, then returning post WWI as the division into the liberal and conservative churches. Many of these were two congregations split from one into two.
     
  16. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    In short we can (and need to often) judge ideas, actions, doctrines, things -- none of which are people. It's necessary for us to distinguish what is right and wrong for our own lives, such as checking on what some teacher/leader is saying, new ideas (the Bereans studied scripture to check on what Paul taught to them). We are to be careful not to judge on just appearances -- John 7:24 -- even when judging just an idea or action. (background of this all: We are never to judge people themselves as persons (the person instead of the wrong action) -- we love the person, regardless of their failures/wrongs; we can judge the action, but not the person; Matthew chapter 7, v 1-5). Now, even when correctly judging the action instead of the person, we need to be quite careful even further, such as to avoid hypocrisy (Romans chapter 2, v1-5).
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Returning to the topic, the division was because some people didn't want to fellowship with some other people or felt strongly that they shouldn't. That division has remained in place for over a century only somewhat obscured by various denominational names, new groups and so on.
     
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  18. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    I personally think a division that happened fairly long ago in this current church we are attending (in our new city we moved to several years back), so that there are 2 large groupings, is an invalid division.

    I don't recognize it, even though it is recognized commonly by the churches involved. We do at least participate with the other grouping in a indoor sports league (during non-Covid times that is), so at least actual people in the groupings are acting correctly: accepting one another and not doing the evil, wrong action of rejecting people from the other grouping. So, if someone says that they are in group A1 or A2 (one group vs the other), I simply make a mental note that they are not. We are all in the more general group A instead, and also A itself I recognize as only a meaningless separation from B-Z, so that there is instead only the Church, and no denominations are valid.

    I occasionally mention something like this, but everyone can tell I'm not argumentative, and am speaking ideally. But it's an ideal that is the true reality.
     
  19. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member

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    For me fundamentalism = 700 Club style evangelism

    Are there people that could fit that description on this forum? I think so.

    Have they and I had a much better time since I stopped using that label though? I think so, yes. It sounds so derogatory and creates an unnecessary fight or flight response when we could be joking and getting along.
     
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