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Featured From where did the "wives" of Cain and Abel come?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    Deeje said: ↑
    I see such a convoluted path to your conclusions but I wonder who shares your views.....do you have a brotherhood who all believe the same things that you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10)
    Still waiting for an answer to this one.....are you dodging it? Who are your brothers? Do you meet regularly? Or are you a church of one? (Hebrews 10:24-25) Who else believes as you do?

    so why are you asking these questions? oh well.
    Who are my brothers? just read the bible, all the saints there are my brothers. and there is only ONE CHURCH
    our message is the scriptures, the bible. We see you have never encountered replies like these before.
    (smile) that's nice we started with 12 and now world wide :p , and our brotherhood is being “holy”.

    And the Kingdom is about JESUS, your “FREEDOM”.

    but are we not discussing Adam and Eve children... o_O

    PS, did you reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24?

    PICJAG.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I thought the reasons were obvious....you are here promoting your own interpretation of scripture claiming that the holy spirit is the source of your beliefs. Is the holy spirit teaching anyone else these things...or just you? Surely you must understand the implications here....?

    There is a big difference between ONE CHURCH and ....a CHURCH OF ONE.....if you have no brotherhood among those living on earth, and no contact or direct communication with fellow believers, then we have nothing to discuss. You have no recognizable Christianity IMO....you simply have your own "church".

    "We" again....there is no "we" if you cannot point to an existing, living, breathing brotherhood. Therefore your beliefs are invalid IMO...not really shared by anyone living on this earth at present. Is that what Jesus had in mind when he sent his disciples out to preach? (Matthew 10:11-14) I don't think so....

    Sorry, that is not a very satisfactory answer. If you wish to be taken seriously here, then you can't be a 'Lone Ranger' claiming special knowledge from the holy spirit, whilst proclaiming all sorts of weird interpretations of scripture. There were no lone rangers in original Christianity. The brotherhood were in close contact with those appointed as shepherds and teachers in the congregation. These had authority over the flock. (Hebrews 13:17)
    Where is your flock? Where are your shepherds?

    The very word "congregation" is a gathering of people....in real space and time.
    When did that change?

    Jesus is the king of God's Kingdom, but you seem to have no idea what God's Kingdom is. (Daniel 2:44)
    Just as you have no idea about the mechanics of the ransom.

    YES!.... the ones Jesus came to save all descended from Adam....none of whom were born inside the garden.......what is he saving them from?
    How does that correlate to the Kingdom?

    Let's see.....

    John 1:2-3....
    "He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." NASB

    God had no "beginning".....and Creation came "through" Jesus, not from him.

    Paul's words at Colossians 1:15-17 confirm this...
    "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." NASB

    There is only one Creator.....but it isn't Jesus. The Father brought all the raw materials into existence by himself and Jesus was used to fashion them into whatever God wanted them to be.
    Jesus is the "us" and "our" of Genesis 1:26.

    As Proverbs 8:27-31 says...
    “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men." NASB

    So how am I reconciling Isaiah 44:24? As above.
     
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  3. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    First thank you for your reply, second, trying to find out about us is unnecessary in the discussion of this topic, but only the word of God is necessary.

    I will address this for the last time. What we’re posting is basic bible study. A breakdown of the scriptures, which is not our own opinions, but what the Holy Ghost Teach. Comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual things.

    Please take this advice. We see you know that we’re correct in what we say, or else you, or someone else would have reprove me, or corrected me by now. But no one cannot. Listen to what one of the Premier teachers of Israel in his day, Gamaliel, said who taught Paul, then saul, who became an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. Listen to what he said, Acts 5:38 & 39 "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:" 39 "But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

    You see Deeje, my mission is not to change your beliefs, my mission is just to witness to the truth. I cannot change the TRUTH, nor anyone's mind. I can only witness to the truth. So at judgment no one can claim Ignorance, “I don’t know, for I never heard this before”. well now you are.

    as you said, “what makes me so sure of what we post?” again read acts Acts 5:38 & 39, if this what I post is not of God then don’t worry about it, but… but…. but if it is of God you or no one else cannot overthrow it. Now we suggest you study what I say about the scriptures, for if we’re in ERROR, reprove us, and correct us, it’s just that easy. Now if you’re correct yourself, then it is I who must face the judgment of God, and NOT YOU, for you have witness to me the TRUTH, and it is my refusal to obey the truth. See how simple it is, not need on either party to get upset with each other. We prove our beliefs by the scriptures, and likewise you. So this is why we discuss, for the FIRE, the Word of God, will burn up false doctrine, but as the apostle Paul said, 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." meaning if one doctrine fails, or is proven in ERROR. by obeying now the truth one will be saved. It just that plain and simple. see the the FIRE here is the TRUTH, the word of God, Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them." that's why John the Baptizer said, "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and FIRE" the word of God is a consuming fire it just destroys false teaching and doctrine. as you can see with this topic.

    Now for an example, you stated in the NASB,
    ok, lets see what the same NASB say about Isaiah 44:24.
    New American Standard Bible
    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

    did you see it DJ? I the Lord, I, I, I, one person who was all alone and by himself. made all things.
    see your same NASB said in Colossians 1 "Through him", and yet your same NASB said that he was alone and by himself. if he was by himself how can as you say God was not there. for your same NASB said in Isaiah 44:24 that he was "ALONE".well God is everywhere, so those two scriptures of the NASB contridict each other. see what we mean reconcile the scriptures now?

    understand, these new translation will say one thing here, and somewhere else say another thing completly different, this is how one can tell if a translation is correct or not. if a translation lie here. we guarantee if it's not of God, it will lie somewhere else, (always keep Acts 5:38 & 39 in the back of your mind when studying). I have seen this many time over and over, that's why I stick to the KJV, it never so far has contridicted itself, just as you just seen for yourself here in just one example with the NASB.

    PICJAG.
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You don’t seem to realise that you have no credibility in anything you say because “we” could quite possibly be “you” under a sad delusion. The Christianity promoted in scripture was never about individuals instructing apart from the recognised religious body who followed Jesus....they all believed the same things and all preached one united message. You do not demonstrate any connection to a living brotherhood.....therefore “we” is only “you” for all intents and purposes.
    Please consider the implications of that.

    I do not doubt your sincerity....but I have to question your conclusions because, even though you believe that they are from the holy spirit, they do not line up except in your own interpretation of those Bible passages and the ones that you offer to support them.

    And there it is....no one can correct you because you have convinced yourself that you can’t possibly be wrong. To you, that is tantamount to questioning the holy spirit. Unthinkable! I understand.

    Yes, you can witness to the truth as you see it......so can we all. And it’s true that no one will ever be able to say to God, “no one told me”......(2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

    There you go....classic response from you. You can disagree with my conclusions if you wish, but you have no “mission” here except to express an opinion like everyone else.

    In my experience, as one who uses quite a few different translations as well as Interlinear and Tanah references, it is not hard to get to the bottom of any scriptural dilemma. I am a researcher and an avid Bible student who has never graduated from any Bible College because I don’t believe that you can ever claim to know all that the Bible contains. It’s contents are like precious gems, all with many facets....just when you think you know something, a new facet reveals new light on the subject.....it’s truly a wonderful book.

    I find the KJV is among the worst when it comes to bias in translation, especially towards the trinity. But we are all free to choose our own path and to worship whomever we please....accepting whatever spiritual instruction appeals to our hearts. These are the decisions that tell God more about us than anything.

    I think you have good motives, but are very misled. You may think the same about me.....but this is why we have free will. We choose what appeals to our hearts. I believe that God accepts us or rejects us based on those decisions.
     
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  5. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    First, thank you for your reply. Second, we take this as you have nothing to add to what we have said on this topic?

    Now, instead of worrying about who “we” are you need to be concentrating on the topic at hand.

    And about “free will”, is not your will the Father’s will. Are we not suppose to be ambassador of Christ? If so, we can’t speak what we want, or do and act the way we want ….

    Now lastly, the reason why you cannot understand our posts, scriptures, Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

    See DJ, we speak with a new tongue, not another, or unknown tongue, but a new tongue. you haven’t encounter this kind of tongue before have you. New things are revealed, things you have never heard of before,…. the things I speak have not been reveal to you yet, and many others

    I know, and understand just what the apostle, and the early church disciples knew as to who the Lord Jesus is. and he's not a trnity. sorry.

    things like “who really are the sons of God” in Genesis 6, or like the Adams who had children, sinless children in the garden before that had sinful children outside the garden. Or like the two fold return of the Lord Jesus. you don’t have a clue to these things ……yet.

    So that’s why we cannot walk together in the light. It’s not that I know more than you, no don’t be childish. It’s just that the Lord Jesus have revealed these things to me, that’s all.

    So there may be some things that you know that I don’t know. in this topic, The things you speak, I have heard already, found them to be in error.

    So my next post will be on revealing who these nephilim are, and it’s right in the bible.

    PICJAG.
     
  6. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    The Nephilim, Who was they?
    To understand who they, The Nephilim/Giants were, one need to understand their origins, and where their place was, A. before the flood, and B. after the flood. The scriptures that reveals it all for us before and after the flood is Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown”.
    The key phrase in the verse is, “the same, (giants), became mighty men”. BINGO, there is our first step in identifying who these Giants/Nephilim are. these giants/Nephilim became know as "MIGHTY MEN". knowing that, let's zero in on "MIGHTY MEN". the definition, Mighty Men: H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj, here mean, גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
    1. powerful. 2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant. [intensive from the same as H1397]
    KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.
    The KJV can translate the Nephilim, the Giants also as a man, but notice “MIGHTY MAN”

    Understand, our term Giant/Nephilim identifies what we’re looking for in this topic setting, in two types of mighty men A. “Mighty Men” in valor. B. Mighty Men in Stature. So our first clue tells us to look for “ mighty men” in the bible, either of A. in valor. or B. in Stature/Height.

    Now, before the flood, we say that the sons of God who had these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” was ordinary men and women, AND NOT ANGELS as fathers. We will prove this by revealing who these giants, these Nephilim, these “mighty men” are after the flood and then we can understand who they are before the flood, and see that they had ordinary human fathers and mothers.

    We will look at the two types of Nephilim, according to the bible. the Nephilim/Giants, men in stature and the Nephilim in valor, Mighty Men, whom all had Ordinary parents. Nothing supernatural here.

    TWO TYPES of "MIGHTY MEN"

    Type I. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.

    Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”


    ******* Type 1. “Mighty Men”. Ordinary men of valor, “A Warrior”.
    Follow the bible. as stated above the Nephilim/giants are the Mighty men. a "Mighty Man" known as a Nephilim dose not always mean in "height" only, but we’re going to look at that also. it can mean a STRONG MAN, a VALIANT MAN, or a WARRIOR in battle. again look at the definition above again to be sure. My source for this definition is from, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.

    So lets find these “mighty men”/Nephilim, and trace them back to their origins. don't let the term Nephilim stick in your head only as GIANTS in stature ONLY. The tradition of men have planted this notion in men heads that Nephilim are only giants, but the bible is clear. as our apostle said, leave those old wives, and fairy tails behind, and re-new your mind in the knowledge of Christ.

    king David, and some of his men was identified as MIGHTY MEN who killed a lot of other men. Let’s catalogue David's mighty men. In 2 Samuel 23:8 read through to the end of the chapter. Two things to notice in 2 Samuel 23. in verse 8 we have the term “Mighty Men” which is the same term used in Genesis 6, here it is again, H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj. גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
    1. powerful. 2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.
    KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.
    Root(s): H1397

    The exact same word used in Genesis 6 for giants/Nephilim. also notice 2 Samuel 23:18 "And Abishai, the brother of Joab, the son of Zeruiah, was chief among three. And he lifted up his spear against three hundred, and slew them, and had the name among three.

    Here, the "NAME" is the Hebrew word, H8034 שֵׁם shem (shame) n-m.
    1. an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality.
    2. (by implication) honor, authority, character.
    [a primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position)]
    KJV: + base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.
    Root(s): H7760

    did one see how it could be translated in the KJV? ..... "renown" just as in Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

    there it is "renown" and theses men, these “mighty men” had a reputation of being KILLERS of other men. Because another word for “RENOWN” is reputation. Meaning, The condition of being known or talked about by many people. They had reputation of being killers of men, as David was. 1 Samuel 29:5 & 6 "Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?". See these men killed, or was killer, or as the definition define them as “Warriors”. That’s why the Lord said in Genesis 6:5 & 6 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." 6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." there was lot of violence, killing, spilling of blood in the Land, hence the flood. notice these mighty men of David had HUMAN PARENTS, no angels in involved. In today’s language these men would be recognized as modern day mercenary for their great valor in battle/fighting. So clearly the bible tells us that these type of Mighty Man/Nephilim is associated with violence, the spilling of blood in the land, killers. And David was a MIGHTY MAN, 1 Samuel 16:18 "Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the LORD is with him." and David had human parents.

    So now we’re going to look at these type II “Mighty men” next time, who are tall in stature, known as GIANTS, and who also have human origins.

    PICJAG.
     
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  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You still don't understand.....do you? Who you ("we") are is the question we need to answer first. Even Jesus needed credentials.....Its what separated him from all the others who wanted to be "the Christ" (who was expected at that time). It's what separates the real from the fakes. If Jesus had not had the credentials to claim his Messiahship, along with his miraculous powers, then how would people have understood who he was?
    So who are you? What are your credentials? What compelling reason do we have to listen to you? You apparently post on a few forums so how has the response been? When the holy spirit was present with Jesus, thousands flocked to hear him and responded to his message. How many are listening to you?

    That is not what free will is for. Free will means that our will can fight with God's will. But for those whose heart is with God, it aligns with God's will naturally. It means that, in spite of our fallen flesh, we can still choose to do right because we want to. (1 John 5:3)

    Ambassadors need an appointment from the leader of the nation they represent. They need qualifications and the endorsement of that Leader. Their conduct needs to be exemplary as fit representatives of their nation.

    Or on the other hand, you might be delusional and in need of some medical help....how are we to know?

    The reason why people don't understand you, may well be because the "new tongue" you speak is foreign to everyone. If God has revealed it only to you.....don't you think that might be a problem?
     
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  8. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    ******* Type II. “Mighty Men”, Ordinary men in stature, “A Giant”

    As previously stated, Nephilim do not mean “Giants” in stature, only, but here we will examine the Nephilim in stature, yes Giants. again we’ll look at the post, or after the flood and see these giants and where they came from. and they all came from the same source, ordinary men and women, in this case, post flood, Noah and his sons. We will start with one of the best know giants in the bible, Goliath, the Philistine of Gath.

    These are the names of Noah sons. Genesis 9:18 & 19 "And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. 19 "These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread”. Knowing this, the only people to exist on the entire planet, after the flood, came from these three sons of Noah. no giants came from any other unions but of human men and women, this is bible.

    1 Samuel 17:23 "And as he talked with them, behold, there came up the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, out of the armies of the Philistines, and spake according to the same words: and David heard them”. Here the scriptures say that Goliath was a Philistine. And Goliath himself tells us that he is a Philistine. 1 Samuel 17:8 "And he stood and cried unto the armies of Israel, and said unto them, Why are ye come out to set your battle in array? am not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me”. We know without a doubt that Goliath of Gath is a Philistine.
    Now the question comes, where did the Philistine come from? Answer, let’s look at the genealogy of Noah sons and trace back to Goliath of Gath who is a Philistine. Genesis 10:6 "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan”. One of Ham’s sons were Mizraim. Let’s look at Mizraim sons. Genesis 10:13 "And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, 14 "And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim”. As we can see Mizraim had a son name Casluhim which out of him came a people called Philistim.
    This is the same exact genealogy out of 1 Chronicles 1:12. Let’s compare them
    1 Chronicles 1:12 "And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (of whom came the Philistines,) and Caphthorim”.
    Genesis 10:14 "And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim”.
    Perfect match, so we know that Philistim in Genesis 10:14 is the Philistines in 1 Chronicles 1:12. Knowing this, the Philistines came from HAM, one of Noah sons, who had Mizraim, who had Casluhim.

    So this Giant Goliath came from ordinary men and women NOT FROM ANY ANGELIC UNION WITH HUMAN WOMAN. This Genesis 6 myth is coming apart.

    in the book of Numbers 13:33 "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight".
    Here we see giants in stature/height the term "Giants"/nephilim is associated with the sons of Anak which can be trace back to HAM. a son of Noah. so all these Giants came from human men and women.

    And if one study the bible these so called Giants was just tall men. For Goliath was around 9ft. And 6 inches. plud. 1 Samuel 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span."

    Doing the math, a cubits is roughly 18 inches, and a span is roughly 9 inches
    Let’s add up Goliath height to be sure. He was six cubits and a span.
    1 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches
    2 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches
    3 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches
    4 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches
    5 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches
    6 cubits = 18 inches, which =1ft and 6 inches

    That’s a total of 6ft and 36 inches. 36 inches is 3 feet. that makes Goliath 9ft tall. But now we need to add the span which is roughly 9 inches, which means the Philistine of Gath, Goliath was over 9 and a half feet tall. Well the tallest man in modern times was Robert Wadlow who stood in at 8ft and 11 inches, just about 9 feet tall. If one would look at some of his pictures next to ordinary people you will see why he is called a giant. Goliath would have had only a few inches on him.

    These giants through out the bible is just extra tall men and women. If one just take their time and add up some of these heights one will find that they was just extraordinary tall men.

    So get that Gulliver travels myth out of your head. These was just tall men who had ordinary parents who was human.

    now if we're in error prove it by scriptures.

    PICJAG.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
    There is no problem with the order of events in Genesis 1.

    According to Genesis 1, it is not the case of a first or second creation. On day 6, animals - particularly the domestic, creeping, and wild animals, were formed (Genesis 1:24, 25). Before that, other animals were formed - sea creatures, and flying creatures - on day 5. (Genesis. 1:20-23)

    So on day 6, animals, along with Adam and Eve were formed.
    God formed animals, which would have lived long before he formed Adam. This is reasonable because the flying creatures, as well as swimming creatures, existed long before.
    After a while, God then formed Adam. Adam and the animals - sea, air, and land - existed together.

    We don't know that Adam swam... perhaps he did - more than likely. So Adam met fish. He did not meet the deep dwellers, but maybe he dove with some of the whales. He met the flyers. Perhaps he saw their nests with the babies, when he climbed the trees to look.
    Adam met the land animals - including the creepy crawly. He had a long time to explore and enjoy nature.

    While Adam was doing that, God was forming, new creatures, and bringing them to Adam.
    Think of it this way.
    My images don't seem to display on RF, so this is just a quick "illustration".
    Day 6
    START......ANIMALS..............ANIMALS..................ANIMALS............................ANIMALS............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ANIMALS...........................................................................................................................................................ANIMALS.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ADAM.............................ANIMALS..................ANIMALS...................ANIMALS..................ANIMALS........................................................................................................................................EVE...................?ANIMALS?...............END.

    So, a person reading the Genesis account need to take both the actual events, in Chapter 1, and the historical record in Chapter 2, into account, and put the two together. As long as one does not separate the two, but merges them, we get an understanding that they fit into one account.
    No problem at all. The chronology is good.

    How you arrived at God creating the "GENDER of the Man and the Woman", is quite baffling, to say the least. Whatever does that mean?
    You can explain, if you like.
    However, the Bible does not say that. It reads... (Genesis 1:26) . . .God said: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness...."
    So God created man - the male version, and the female version. That's two human beings... on day 6. Yes. Male and female are gender, but they only exist with the being...not without. So the gender of Adam and Eve, existed when they did. It sounds so weird saying that.

    You did not explain the "day 3" idea. Perhaps you abandoned that, since it's not Biblical?
     
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  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  11. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    not saying that you're right or wrong. but consider that man was made before any animals.
    Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

    that was the fifth day, now day three.
    Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
    Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    see, man was here before the grass, herbs and trees was here, (see Genis 1:9-13).

    PICJAG.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I believe that you are very confused. Why would God have two separate creation accounts that contradict each other? Why would he create man with no food yet supplied? Was Adam to fast until God planted the garden of Eden?
    Humans were the last on the scene and God assigned them to be caretakers of his Earth, given his qualities in order to represent him here. Given free will so that decisions could be made when necessary that would reflect his own.

    Genesis ch1 is chronological account of creation and ch 2 is a history of mankind. This is what "generations" mean.
     
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  13. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    nope, you must not have seen it at the very end
    This is basic Bible study, I'm suprise you didn't know this. there is some much information in the creation account, well it'll take a long time to unravel all of it. I'm finding out new revelation all the time.

    PICJAG
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    No. I already discussed that... in this post.
    We are reading a historical account that was not recorded in chronological order, hence you apparently confuse yourself. @101G sorry, I should have said, one can be confused.
    That's an important fact I think we should not ignore.

    No part of Genesis 2 says day 3, so evidently you are assuming two things - an order, and time of events.
    Doing so, only creates a problem, rather than allow the Bible to reveal the truth.

    Perhaps you believe the Bible to be a conflicting book.
    Others see it as a harmonious book, and therefore allow the scriptures to explain themselves. When this is done, one sees the harmony.
    If you start with conflict, you will end with conflict... and confusion.
    However, it's up to us - our choice.
     
    #174 nPeace, Nov 18, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  15. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    first thanks for the reply, so you believe I'm confused.... well you know my policy by now, "PROVE ME THAT I'M IN ERROR. but we suggest you "Study to show yourself approved first.
    no, God don't have two creation accounts, chapter two is a "DETAILED" account of chapter 1 ... :eek:
    and no, there is no contradictions. it's just you been taught in ERROR. the bible say RE-NEW YOUR MIND... well?
    his, (Adam), body was not in deterioration, he at that time had not sinned. what he was to eat was not physical in the garden, but mental/spiritual food. now if you think that the fruit that they eating was physical in nature, well please tell us what kind of fruit that a tree of Good and Evil produce? .... well. there are too many verses that exposes that particular nonesense. just to give you a heads up which we know a question is comming, just ask yourself what are the "FRUIT" of the Holy Spirit? ........... :)
    as a matter of FACT, man was his FIRST LIVING CREATURE to be Formed. just as we're to put God First in everything we do, or say. he put us first in his creation, why cain't we put him first in our lives?
    Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"
    did you notice the word "These" at the beginning of the verse? and did you notice the "s" at the end of generation,,, ;) that just told us a lot right there.

    see DJ, man adam is heavenly/spiritually and earthly..... :rolleyes: you didn't know that did you. just think, when God formed man, he was a dead earthly man, until the breath of Life entered in him.

    now believe it or not, there is a ton of information just in the forming of man ... oh well...


    PICJAG.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    LOOK PEACE, I'M NEVER OFFENDED, BEEN CALLED WOREST... lol. So don't worry about that I know you're ok.
    ok, lets see. question, what day was the "GRASS", the "HERBS", and the "FRUIT TREES" came forth on, scripture, Genesis 1:9-13 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so." 10 "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good." 11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." 12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." 13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."
    ok peace, the third day produce the grass, the herbs, and the fruit trees, correct.

    now chapter 2, Genesis 2:4-7 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," 5 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground." 6 "But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." 7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

    ok peace, "BEFORE" the plants was in the earth, "BEFORE" the grass grew, "BEFORE" the herbs came came forth, MAN was formed by God... BINGO. there are your scriptures. hey don't argue with me argue with the scriptures, "BEFORE", befor, the gras, before the herbs, before the plants, BEFORE all these things on day 3 man was formed.

    PICJAG.
     
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    How does one do that when you refuse to be corrected?

    Genesis 1:9-13...beginning of day 3....
    "Then God said: “Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, but the collecting of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so. 12 And the earth began to produce grass, seed-bearing plants and trees yielding fruit along with seed, according to their kinds. Then God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. "

    Vegetation appeared on day 3......humans and animals were created on day 6....

    Genesis 1:24-31...at the beginning of the 6th day God said....
    “...Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

    26 Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.

    29 Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. 30 And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so.

    31 After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day."


    Chapter 2 is not in chronological order but pertains to the generations of mankind. How is this not obvious?
    How do you get humans appearing before plants and trees? Who said that the food they ate was spiritual? You are making up a lot of stuff to fill the holes in your scenario....your "renewal" appears to be a new fabrication.

    It is clear that you overthink everything and make up things to pad out your story. It makes no sense. Physical beings need physical food and the Genesis account says that God provided it. You jump to metaphor when there is none.

    Humans, like animals are mortal creatures who need external things to keep them alive.....food, water and air are the essentials, and God provided them in abundance.....for all of his creation. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" has no specific identification as to the "kind" of fruit it was, but it was apparently the only one of its kind in the garden, and God reserved that tree for himself, as his exclusive property. The humans were to respect what belonged to God because he had given them every other kind of fruit to eat. None of the fruit trees in the garden were specifically identified, so your argument is moot.

    The "fruitage" of God's spirit is metaphoric....it is what God's spirit produces in humans.

    John the Baptists words to the religious leaders of his day show us the metaphor....
    "When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matthew 3:7-10)

    What are these fruits? They are the actions of those men. They were the trees not producing fine fruit so they would be cut down and disposed of.(Matthew 23:37-39)

    :facepalm: Good grief....where does it say that man is God's first creation? Read Genesis 1....

    Genesis 1:20-23....
    "Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day."

    All these creatures came before man.

    Adam was 100% mortal human with the opportunity to live forever, as long as he obeyed his Creator....he didn't obey and lost his perfection and eventually his life...but he also lost everlasting life for his children. Sin entered into their bodies as some kind of genetic degeneration, and they were all then condemned to death.

    God took away access to the only thing that could keep them alive..."the tree of life". Now sinful, it would have been a nightmare if wicked men could partake of that fruit....and never die.

    "Oh well" indeed.....this "ton of information" I believe is stored in your own mind...not in the word of God. Sorry, but there are so many holes in your scenario....but apparently you don't see them. Oh well....
     
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  18. 101G

    101G Active Member

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    This is your biggist mistake. we laid out the scriptures, and you cannot understand. the GENDER of Male and female was "CREATED", not MADE, nor FORMED, but the GENDERS was "CREATED on DAY 6. maleand female. that's what was created on day 6.
    if you could not see that in post #176 you will never see it in the condition of your mindset. so that's a dead issue for as I'm concern.
    LOL, the "DETAILS" are right in front of your face. scripture, Genesis 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." STOP, the man is alone right, now watch what happens next. Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

    notice, A. Adam was alone. B. God then form the animals out of the Ground. STOP, that right there just told us that the Man was here before the animals. was not the fowl made on day 5? listen. Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."Genesis 1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."

    well, well, well, DJ the fowl was made on day 5 and in Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." WAIT A MINUTE. HOW CAN "ADAM" BE MADE ON DAY 6 WHEN THE LORD FORMED THE FOWL ON DAY 5 AND BROUGHT THEM TO ADAM BEFORE HE FORMED THE FOWL?
    don't you know what that mens DJ? it means Adam was here before DAY 5
    now you can try to wiggle out of that one..... :eek:

    PICJAG

    PS I must stop here, because I got to hear your answer to one....... :D cain't wait for your answer.
     
  19. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    The Bible never states that Abel was married. Cain was,though.

    So where did Cain get his wife? From the other descendants of A & E..... Genesis 5:4b

    Since the first few generations of Adam’s progeny were closer to perfection than we are (that’s why they lived so long), there was no danger of deformities due to closely-related parents.

    Even several generations later, Abraham married Sarah...she was his half-sister.

    Take care.
     
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  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Who’s “we”?
     
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