From The Heart of an Honest Muslim!

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who gave this guy the permission to speak on behalf of every single muslim? I didnt rejoice 9/11, i was 11 years old when that happened and i couldnt care less. I remember switching the tv to Dragon Ball Z lol...

That doesn't make you look any better, FYI.

 

[Useless2015]

I understand that at 11 years old you "couldn't care less", but I would hope that by now you have some compassion for the thousands of innocents murdered on 911.

Uhm not really. The years after 9/11, millions of muslims were slaughtered by the Americans. I guess my compassion is with my brothers and sisters.
Maybe when muslims are not being haunted and killed by America, i would start feeling compassion for those 3000 that died on 9/11. I guess thats not gonna happen tho is it?

 

[outhouse]

Surprisingly i don't see anything about our corrupt leaders ...

I think when trying to fix a problem this allegory works great.

When you point the finger at someone else, remember 3 point back at you.

To fix a problem you start with yourself, I'm not saying you are making any errors or the article is accurate. But there is always room for improvement in everyone.

 

[outhouse]

It's nice to read about an Islamic scholar that categorically denounces Islamic violence and terrorism without making any excuses.

That's why I posted it

I think many don't want to face any issue or admit there is even a problem.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To be far, the West should apologize to everyone for destroying multiple countries in the Muslim world and facilitating, arming and funding many of these radical Jihadist groups through a strategy of proxy wars, including being BFFs with the biggest funder and source of Sunni Islamism and violent Jihad - Saudi Arabia, while seeking to destroy the governments of the more secular Muslim nations (Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, etc.).

So let's not get all self-righteous.

 

[Useless2015]

Personally, I think that it is a necessary consequence of the perceived expectation that Muslims should be acknowledged as brothers sharing a single belief in the One True God.

I dont think this is an answer to my question. This is an attempt to explain why muslims should all be held accountable for what others do.

 

[Augustus]

The author is making claims about what Muslims are being taught, and what things are shouted or said when Muslims gather. These claims are true to some degree. The question is, how often are these things occurring? An honest look into the frequency of such behaviors is incredibly important.

Anywhere from very frequently to not at all. There's no 'one size fits all'.

That's why it's pointless to have some kind of 'collective responsibility' mindset.

 

[Akivah]

I don't think so.

The article explains pretty clearly issues within he religion itself that promote negative stereotypes for all, not just the real bad ones.

I did a search on Dr. Hamid and found this article he wrote:
http://www.rabbihaim.com/hopeforislamnov23.html
Is there a hope to "Reform" Islam

Many people in the West tried to correlate the recent violence observed in the Islamic world to lack of education, poverty, and a feeling of oppression blamed on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.Unfortunately, the simple facts showed us clearly, and beyond doubt, that these excuses are not the true causes of "Islamic terrorism".

As one who was a member of one of the most fanatical groups in Islam, GI in Egypt, and as a person who has resisted Islamic fundamentalism when I realized its threat some 20 years ago, I feel that it is my obligation toward mankind to declare that the origin of Islamic Terrorism is deeply rooted in the way Muslims understand their religion. In other words, in Islamic teaching itself.

 

[LuisDantas]

Uhm not really. The years after 9/11, millions of muslims were slaughtered by the Americans. I guess my compassion is with my brothers and sisters.
Maybe when muslims are not being haunted and killed by America, i would start feeling compassion for those 3000 that died on 9/11. I guess thats not gonna happen tho is it?

You realize you are justifying what some call "Islamophobia" by saying such a thing?

 

[LuisDantas]

I dont think this is an answer to my question. This is an attempt to explain why muslims should all be held accountable for what others do.

If you say so. I think I answered the question presented quite completely.

 

[LuisDantas]

To be far, the West should apologize to everyone for destroying multiple countries in the Muslim world and facilitating, arming and funding many of these radical Jihadist groups through a strategy of proxy wars, including being BFFs with the biggest funder and source of Sunni Islamism and violent Jihad - Saudi Arabia, while seeking to destroy the governments of the more secular Muslim nations (Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, etc.).

So let's not get all self-righteous.

I fail to see the parallel. I am not taking the side of that militarism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I fail to see the parallel. I am not taking the side of that militarism.

My point is that this whole thing isn't really about religion at the end of the day. It's divide and conquer. It's a game. I'm sure some of those Jihadists carrying out attacks do actually believe in the religious rhetoric, but they are just naive pawns. It's much the same with any extremist movement. You have angry, disillusioned and disenfranchised (mostly) young people who are usually poor, uneducated and under/unemployed and you have some charismatic sociopath coming along and stoking the fires of their angry and giving them a target to aim at it. Now the sociopath may not even really believe the crap they're selling to the youth. There's usually some sort of personal pay-off in it for them, by way of the military-industrial complex. And notice that it's almost always the young and impoverished who do the dying, almost never the ones up top.

This is just a sick game.

 

[LuisDantas]

My point is that this whole thing isn't really about religion at the end of the day.

I wish I could agree, and in some limited senses I do.

However, I can't in good conscience fail to point out that there is indeed a lot of truth to the message in the OP. Hardly anything said there is actually wrong, although there is some (not much) room for questioning the emphasis.

 

[LuisDantas]

The author is making claims about what Muslims are being taught, and what things are shouted or said when Muslims gather. These claims are true to some degree. The question is, how often are these things occurring? An honest look into the frequency of such behaviors is incredibly important.

So very true.

 

[outhouse]

I wish I could agree, and in some limited senses I do.

However, I can't in good conscience fail to point out that there is indeed a lot of truth to the message in the OP. Hardly anything said there is actually wrong, although there is some (not much) room for questioning the emphasis.

Agreed.

I think it Is obvious and safe to say, it is correct and the different aspects apply to different communities in different degrees.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wish I could agree, and in some limited senses I do.

However, I can't in good conscience fail to point out that there is indeed a lot of truth to the message in the OP. Hardly anything said there is actually wrong, although there is some (not much) room for questioning the emphasis.

It's really about learning how the world really works and that it's basically about money, power and greed at the end of the day. This isn't even really about Islam. "They" don't really care about Islam. It's mostly America and Russia continuing Cold War nonsense and fighting each other through proxies. Eventually it's going to lead to all-out WWIII involving America, Russia and China. What's going on in the Middle East is really, at the root of it, America and its allies and Russia and its allies fighting over resources that have geo-political and military importance. Back at home, they stir up hatred of foreigners and Islam as a distraction and keeping the moronic masses fighting with one another (and the same is being done in Islamic societies by fermenting hatred towards "the other"), while the powers that be laugh all the way to the bank.

Both America and Russia are empires in a state of decline, on the verge of collapse. They'd both rather tip the board than lose the game. This is what happens when you let psychopaths have power. (Don't worry, China is teetering on the edge of collapse, too. The entire global financial system is.)

 

[FearGod]

Had this article emailed to me. Comments?


By Dr. Tawfik Hamid
"I am a Muslim by faith, a Christian by spirit, a Jew by heart, and above all I am a human being."


Dr. Hamid is an Egyptian scholar and author of the following article...


I was born a Muslim and lived all my life as a follower of Islam.
After the barbaric terrorist attacks done by the hands of my fellow Muslims everywhere on this globe, and after the too many violent acts by Islamists in many parts of the world, I feel responsible as a Muslim and as a human being I must speak out and tell the truth to protect the world, and Muslims as well, from a coming catastrophe and war of civilizations.

I have to admit that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward non-Muslims.
We Muslims are the ones who need to change.


Until now we have accepted polygamy, the beating of women by men, and killing those who convert from Islam to other religions. We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery or wars, to spread our religion and to subjugate others to Islam and force them to pay a humiliating tax called jizia.


We ask others to respect our religion while all the time we curse non-Muslims loudly (in Arabic) in our Friday prayers in the mosques.

What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "descendants of the pigs and monkeys"? [Yet are not both Arabs and Jews are descendants of Ibrahim? (Abraham)!] Is that a message of love and peace, or a message of hate? I have been into [Christian] churches and [Jewish] synagogues where they were praying for Muslims.
While all the time, we curse them, and teach our generations to call them "infidels", and to hate them.


We immediately jump in a 'knee jerk reflex' to defend Prophet Mohammad when someone accuses him of being a paedophile while, at the same time, ..we are proud with the story in our Islamic books that he married a young girl seven years old [Aisha] when he was above 50 years old.

I am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks. Muslims denounce these attacks to look good in front of the media, but we condone the Islamic terrorists and sympathise with their cause.
Until now our 'reputable' top religious authorities have never issued a fatwa or religious statement to proclaim Bin Laden as an apostate, while an author, like Rushdie, was declared an apostate who should be killed according to Islamic Shari'a law just for writing a book criticizing Islam.

Muslims demonstrated to get more religious rights as we did in France to stop the ban on the hijab (head scarf), but we did not demonstrate with such passion and in such numbers against the terrorist murders. It is our absolute silence against the terrorists that gives the energy to these terrorists to continue doing their evil acts. We Muslims need to stop blaming our problems on others or on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
As a matter of honesty, Israel is the only light of democracy, civilization, and human rights in the whole Middle East .

We kicked out the Jews with no compensation or mercy from most of the Arab countries to make them "Jews-free countries" while Israel accepted more than a million Arabs to live there, have their own nationality, and enjoy their rights as human beings. In Israel, women cannot be beaten legally by men, and any person can change his/her belief system with no fear of being killed by the Islamic law of 'apostasy,' while in our Islamic world people do not enjoy any of these rights.

I agree that the 'Palestinians' suffer, but they suffer because of their corrupt leaders and not because of Israel.

It is uncommon to see Arabs who live in Israel leaving to live in the Arab world. On the other hand, we used to see thousands of Palestinians going to work with happiness in Israel, its 'enemy.' If Israel treats Arabs badly as some people claim, surely we would have seen the opposite happening.

We Muslims need to admit our problems and face them. Only then we can treat them and start a new era to live in harmony with human mankind.
Our religious leaders have to show a clear, and very strong stand against polygamy, paedophilia, slavery, killing those who convert from Islam to other religion, beating of women by men, and declaring wars on non-Muslims to spread Islam.
Then, and only then, will we have the right to ask others to respect our religion..
Dr. Tawfik Hamid

He isn't the honest, but you're the honest about hating Islam.

 

[David1967]

Uhm not really. The years after 9/11, millions of muslims were slaughtered by the Americans. I guess my compassion is with my brothers and sisters.
Maybe when muslims are not being haunted and killed by America, i would start feeling compassion for those 3000 that died on 9/11. I guess thats not gonna happen tho is it?

Thanks for the response. Tells me all I need to know about your character or lack of.

 

[FearGod]

Uhm not really. The years after 9/11, millions of muslims were slaughtered by the Americans. I guess my compassion is with my brothers and sisters.
Maybe when muslims are not being haunted and killed by America, i would start feeling compassion for those 3000 that died on 9/11. I guess thats not gonna happen tho is it?

Killing the civilians is an evil deed regardless of their origins.

 

[Pastek]

I have to admit that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward non-Muslims.

We ask others to respect our religion while all the time we curse non-Muslims loudly (in Arabic) in our Friday prayers in the mosques.

What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "descendants of the pigs and monkeys"? [Yet are not both Arabs and Jews are descendants of Ibrahim? (Abraham)!] Is that a message of love and peace, or a message of hate? I have been into [Christian] churches and [Jewish] synagogues where they were praying for Muslims.
While all the time, we curse them, and teach our generations to call them "infidels", and to hate them.

I live abroad in a non-muslim country and i rarely go to the mosque.
I never heard anything such as demonizing or cursing non-muslims.

Maybe @Smart_Guy @Godobeyer @FearGod @Shia Islam @Sakeenah @Gharib and the others who live in muslim countries or non muslims can tell us about the Friday sermons they assist to.

By the way i watch different sermons on tv the friday and never heard that kind of things : algerian tv, tunisian tv, saudi chanel, egyptian chanel, sudan chanel (not private chanels but national chanels)

We kicked out the Jews with no compensation or mercy from most of the Arab countries to make them "Jews-free countries" while Israel accepted more than a million Arabs to live there, have their own nationality, and enjoy their rights as human beings. In Israel, women cannot be beaten legally by men, and any person can change his/her belief system with no fear of being killed by the Islamic law of 'apostasy,' while in our Islamic world people do not enjoy any of these rights.

This is interesting because i don't know enought about this subject.
As i said i'm from the maghreb, in this region we used to have more jews than christians contrary to Egypt and the Middle east, and we didn't kicked out jews from our countries, except Algeria but if i understood well it's because they were in the french's side during the independance war.
I know that in Egypt they forced them to go, but in the maghreb they are like any other citizens and they have their rights.

I remember one day a jew (from Morroco) said that some bombings were made by israelis because they wanted to force them to go to Israel.

So that's why i don't like how his "doctor" is talking, as we are "one", as we acted or think the same.
each country/region is different and have a different history.

Muslims denounce these attacks to look good in front of the media, but we condone the Islamic terrorists and sympathise with their cause.

So we are liars, thanks "doctor"

By the way, algerians lost around 200,000 people during the 90's because of terrorism.
I knew many algerian friends who went to their country during their time to see their family and some who lived in the mountain or little cities said that they didn't have the choice and sometimes were afraid. In particular because the terrorist used to desguise in false police officer and block the road to people to kill them.

So no, we didn't sympathized with the terrorists because terrorism didn't start in 9/11 against 3,000 americans but in the 90's (and during 10 years) against 200,000 muslims.