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Friedrich Nietzsches succinct criticisms of Christianity

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is a reason why Christianity is not as popular as it was 500 years ago. During the last 200 years there has been an industrial and spiritual revolution all around the World. And one of the most important philosophers and writers during that period is Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche is a key philosopher in understanding the World zeitgeist and how the value system of the masses has change.

Below is a very good 12 minute video introduction into the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. It's not the Friedrich Nietzsche was actually an atheist per se but he certainly provides an intellectual context for being an atheist.

The video gets what being an atheist means a little off. Being an atheist simply means not having a belief in God. Being an atheist does not mean denying the existence of God although practically every theists who cares about what atheists think would claim. For most atheists, what it means to be an atheist, is simply not having a belief in God because there is no easily agreeable evidence supporting such a belief.

The video however does a really good job giving you insight into Friedrich Nietzsche brilliant criticism of the way the human mind works and the importance of programming our subjective experiences based on our moral values:


Friedrich Nietzsche had some acute criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to take what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, good sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they really wanted but were incapable of achieving while praising what they did not want was being virtuous. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." A Christian slave was too weak to have any personal voice and was only capable of bending a knee to whoever was in authority.

This idea that being a submissive slave to authority is somehow sacred is hard for me to accept. I just can't help be think this whole way of being is somehow a way to manipulate the masses in accepting rule by monarchy which is in many ways against their own selfish self-interests.

Nietzsche pointed out God is dead because compared to previous cultures, God is not the central part of modern life. I don't think Nietzsche was altogether anti-God but more interesting is the problems people where having with Christianity and the idea of God.

Popular Nietzsche Books
With nietzhe the apple did not even fall off the tree. Father dead of a stroke mentally ill 35 year old minister. I don't believe in God was was fredriches answer to his father's bull****. His father was stupid.
Carl_Ludwig_Nietzsche.jpg
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
When you stop at a stop sign or red light you submit to authority. Do you think it's a good idea to run stop signs or red lights?
When I follow traffic laws, I submit to the human authorities. I do it because I understand why it's better for me, and everyone else, to submit and follow the laws.
When it comes to God and morality, I have a completely different attitude towards human authorities, whether it's Paul, Muhammad, or you.
Tom
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
An Ubermensch could make an interesting sci-fiction character, that's about it. Weren't those on Star Trek?
I think you are joking, but in case you're not... those two things have nothing to do with each other.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Amor fati is ridiculous. To deny there are things that should never ever be is blind. True love and deserved compassion and the ability to forgive the repentant are strengths of character.

Power is not necessarily a good thing. Corrupt powers exist that make life extremely adverse. I would say the founding fathers of America were far wiser than Nietzsche. They realized that power corrupts people, and that human nature is not to be trusted.

Anyone truly seeking truth will come to know it. Deserved compassion is the worth of life. Upon it real relationships are forged. Virtues are the highest ideals to aspire to. To deserve is the highest ideal.

Without true love and compassion all things are false and a waste of time. Innocent intention is the treasure to seek, and of the greatest worth.

I'm no christian, so I would agree that Christianity is essentially a waste of time.

Truth of heart is the highest worth, not will to power.

When Shakespeare wrote ' to thine own self be true ' I'm very sure he meant the truth that is honesty, loyalty to virtue. To be true is to be upright at heart.

Methinks many many people are lost or simply ignore the truth of virtue. The meaning of the word true is lost on most people today, and they suffer greatly for it's loss.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
You seem to be brainwashed by Neitsche. When you stop at a stop sign or red light you submit to authority. Do you think it's a good idea to run stop signs or red lights?

Why is it every Christian thinks anyone who thinks differently is "brainwashed". I once had an argument with a born-again and told him, "I believe absolute authority comes from within." He replied with, "Who told you that?" Are Christians even capable of thinking for themselves or do all their thoughts have to be told to them by some exterior "authority" ? It's funny, you only criticize and hate in other people what you do not like about your own character. The next time you start doling out "brainwashing" insults maybe you should look in the mirror!
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
There is a reason why Christianity is not as popular as it was 500 years ago. During the last 200 years there has been an industrial and spiritual revolution all around the World. And one of the most important philosophers and writers during that period is Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche is a key philosopher in understanding the World zeitgeist and how the value system of the masses has change.

Below is a very good 12 minute video introduction into the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. It's not the Friedrich Nietzsche was actually an atheist per se but he certainly provides an intellectual context for being an atheist.

The video gets what being an atheist means a little off. Being an atheist simply means not having a belief in God. Being an atheist does not mean denying the existence of God although practically every theists who cares about what atheists think would claim. For most atheists, what it means to be an atheist, is simply not having a belief in God because there is no easily agreeable evidence supporting such a belief.

The video however does a really good job giving you insight into Friedrich Nietzsche brilliant criticism of the way the human mind works and the importance of programming our subjective experiences based on our moral values:


Friedrich Nietzsche had some acute criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to take what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, good sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they really wanted but were incapable of achieving while praising what they did not want was being virtuous. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." A Christian slave was too weak to have any personal voice and was only capable of bending a knee to whoever was in authority.

This idea that being a submissive slave to authority is somehow sacred is hard for me to accept. I just can't help be think this whole way of being is somehow a way to manipulate the masses in accepting rule by monarchy which is in many ways against their own selfish self-interests.

Nietzsche pointed out God is dead because compared to previous cultures, God is not the central part of modern life. I don't think Nietzsche was altogether anti-God but more interesting is the problems people where having with Christianity and the idea of God.

Popular Nietzsche Books


With all that being said, still doesn't answer the question.
People run around in cycles, and still don't get to the question.

When you have people that are teaching a class, but they, themselves have no clue about how to answer questions. How can you teach someone else, when you don't have the answers yourself.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I find it amusing to watch how Nietzsche makes Christians squirm and uncomfortable, desperately grab for anything to help shield them from Nietzsche's acidic criticism of Christianity and questioning of conventional morality. They end up giving hefty evidence for the existence of his concept of slave morality.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I did watch it. I think the beginning explains it. Just some madman trying to make sense of the world, mixing in a few crazy ideas, put in an organized format. Probably a lot had to do with hallucinogenic toxins in his body from the syphilis bacteria.

I notice people who worship authority will always attack the messenger and ignore any message that may be there no matter how good message may be. I just find it very telling that you focus on the author and not what he is saying.
I find it amusing to watch how Nietzsche makes Christians squirm and uncomfortable, desperately grab for anything to help shield them from Nietzsche's acidic criticism of Christianity and questioning of conventional morality. They end up giving hefty evidence for the existence of his concept of slave morality.

I don't even like Nietzsche! But I can at least listen and appreciate his words and see his brilliance. Regardless of succinct criticisms, his views do not shake my faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. For some people, their faith is not strong enough to even read Nietzsche's words because they know it may irreversibly shake their faith.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I notice people who worship authority will always attack the messenger and ignore any message that may be there no matter how good message may be. I just find it very telling that you focus on the author and not what he is saying.


I don't even like Nietzsche! But I can at least listen and appreciate his words and see his brilliance. Regardless of succinct criticisms, his views do not shake my faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. For some people, their faith is not strong enough to even read Nietzsche's words because they know it may irreversibly shake their faith.

If you are the messenger you must have a master. So Jesus is right, you serve one master or another. Neitzche is your master, and who is Neitzche's master? It isn't Jesus..
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don't even like Nietzsche! But I can at least listen and appreciate his words and see his brilliance. Regardless of succinct criticisms, his views do not shake my faith in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. For some people, their faith is not strong enough to even read Nietzsche's words because they know it may irreversibly shake their faith.
We could have used more people with that mentality in a philosophy course I took that studied Nietzsche and Foucault. Of course the entire class had strong disagreements to some of Nietzsche's stuff, like his views on women, but when it came to religion he struck nerves, invoked anxiety, and challenged the faith of some in ways that cutesy church pamphlets--being secured in the dominate position of Christian ideology--never conceived of.
And then there was my intro philosophy course, with a conservative Christian "teacher" who skipped Nietzsche entirely. From class discussions, I was left with the impression she too came from a padded, comfortable, and secure position of faith that shaken and weakened when confronted with such harsh criticism, strenuous challenges, and difficult questions posed by people such as Nietzsche.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
An Ubermensch could make an interesting sci-fiction character, that's about it. Weren't those on Star Trek?
Like the augments, such as Khan? They started off evil (it was the 60s), but by DS9, Dr Bashir was shown to be one and he was basically a good guy. Then there were the other augments Dr Bashir met a couple of times, but they were basically the "leftovers" from genetic engineering. They had gifts but were mentally off.

Christianity teaches respect for authority is a good thing.
Except Jewish authority?

I would prefer to come to a round table in fellowship, federation, and with equality.
This. Just because governments have been certain ways doesn't mean we still have to do them that way.

When you stop at a stop sign or red light you submit to authority. Do you think it's a good idea to run stop signs or red lights?
If a cop tells you to run over a baby, will you?

Blind loyalty to authority can be really, REALLY bad.

From here
Stanford Prison Experiment (1971)
This has been the psychological human responses study to captivity as well as the behavioral effects when it comes to inmates and authorities inside the prison. It was conducted by a researchers’ team which was led by Philip Zimbardo at Stanford University Undergraduate. The guards and prisoners had rapidly adapted into the roles. They stepped beyond limitations of was predicted. As a result, it led to psychologically damaging and dangerous situations. Some of the guards have been judged to obtain such genuine sadistic tendencies exhibited. On the other hand, most prisoners became emotionally traumatized. Two of them have to be eliminated from that experiment earlier.

From here
The results of the experiment were nothing short of astonishing. A whopping 65 percent of participants were willing to deliver the maximum level of shock, even when the person pretending to be shocked was begging to be released or complaining of a heart condition.

You can probably see why Milgram's experiment is considered so controversial. Not only did it reveal stunning information about the lengths that people are willing to go in order to obey, it also caused considerable distress for the participants involved. According to Milgram's own survey of the participants, 84 percent reported that they were glad they had been involved in the experiment, while 1 percent said that they regretted their involvement.

When you have people that are teaching a class, but they, themselves have no clue about how to answer questions. How can you teach someone else, when you don't have the answers yourself.
All you really need to teach is how to find the answers. You don't have to HAVE the answers, just the methods for reliable research.

If you are the messenger you must have a master. So Jesus is right, you serve one master or another. Neitzche is your master, and who is Neitzche's master? It isn't Jesus..
God invented critics so people could avoid being sycophants. How can you judge a tree by its fruit if you refuse to judge it accurately? Someone has to.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Neitzche is your master
I think he's made it apparent Nietzsche isn't his master.
Basically Nietzche didn't want anyone telling him anything so he created his own imaginary world to his own liking, with the help of some syphilis bacteria.
That statement only shows your ignorance of Nietzsche. Most of his writings were complete before he fell ill, and it most likely was not syphilis. And many scholars tend to not include his last few books in his "core anthology" because they were written while he was ill, and are noticeably different (especially in quality) from his pre-illness books.
When you stop at a stop sign or red light you submit to authority. Do you think it's a good idea to run stop signs or red lights?
Sometimes it's more about safety than following the law. Plenty of times I'll drive through stop signs and red lights. But most of the time I won't, not because of the law, but because pulling out in front of oncoming traffic can be very destructive and possibly lethal.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Also kind of ironic and interesting, that the antisemitism in Germany that grew into Nazi Germany claimed the banner of the Cross, but yet Nietzsche, in all his anti-religious ferocity, was critical of the antisemitism, and Richard Wagnar's conversion to an anti-Semite church was one of the reasons Nietzsche ended their friendship. Nietzsche also had a certain admiration for the Jews, unlike Christianity's very long history of animosity and lethal violence against them.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
There is a reason why Christianity is not as popular as it was 500 years ago. During the last 200 years there has been an industrial and spiritual revolution all around the World. And one of the most important philosophers and writers during that period is Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche is a key philosopher in understanding the World zeitgeist and how the value system of the masses has change.

Below is a very good 12 minute video introduction into the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. It's not the Friedrich Nietzsche was actually an atheist per se but he certainly provides an intellectual context for being an atheist.

The video gets what being an atheist means a little off. Being an atheist simply means not having a belief in God. Being an atheist does not mean denying the existence of God although practically every theists who cares about what atheists think would claim. For most atheists, what it means to be an atheist, is simply not having a belief in God because there is no easily agreeable evidence supporting such a belief.

The video however does a really good job giving you insight into Friedrich Nietzsche brilliant criticism of the way the human mind works and the importance of programming our subjective experiences based on our moral values:


Friedrich Nietzsche had some acute criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to take what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, good sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they really wanted but were incapable of achieving while praising what they did not want was being virtuous. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." A Christian slave was too weak to have any personal voice and was only capable of bending a knee to whoever was in authority.

This idea that being a submissive slave to authority is somehow sacred is hard for me to accept. I just can't help be think this whole way of being is somehow a way to manipulate the masses in accepting rule by monarchy which is in many ways against their own selfish self-interests.

Nietzsche pointed out God is dead because compared to previous cultures, God is not the central part of modern life. I don't think Nietzsche was altogether anti-God but more interesting is the problems people where having with Christianity and the idea of God.

Popular Nietzsche Books
Nietzsche gave Christians a lot to think about. Some of what he says is true. However, there were quite a few times that Israel rebelled against the Roman occupation (like in 1&2 Maccabees). So it's not that Israelites were cowardly, it's that they were outnumbered severely. What other choice to you have but to look within to spiritual things rather than physical pleasures when the world is literally raping you, splitting open your pregnant women, and killing your male children in the name of conquest? God is all you have in that moment.
 
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