freedom of and freedom from

[mangalavara]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

They are equally important to me. I want for everybody else what I want for myself: the freedom to practice whatever religion I want, and the freedom to not practice any religion if I become disenchanted with religion.

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

Agree and agree!

By the way, it is kind of fun to think about what other propositions we can place between freedom and religion. 'Freedom across religion,' 'freedom beyond religion,' and 'freedom through religion' are interesting.

 

[QuestioningMind]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

I don't see how you can have freedom of religion if you don't have the freedom to be protected from having others force their religion onto you.

But to answer your question, since I don't practice any religion it's more important to me to be protected from religions that others might try and force onto me than for me to have the freedom to practice a religion.

 

[firedragon]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

It would depend on your circumstances I suppose. Also, freedom from religion is a meme that is used very effectively to become famous, become politicians, and to get into power in secular democracies. Each person and society would probably have different circumstances.

 

[danieldemol]

I put down a balance, but freedom from religion is the more important of the two since you can't have freedom of religion if someone else is free to force their religion on you.

In my opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It would depend on your circumstances I suppose. Also, freedom from religion is a meme that is used very effectively to become famous, become politicians, and to get into power in secular democracies. Each person and society would probably have different circumstances.

Probably. But freedom of religion lets the religious have their rights to practice, many times to the detriment of others. We need to reinforce we also have a freedom from religion to prevent that.
Many countries do not allow for either. And one without the other is problematic.

 

[firedragon]

Probably. But freedom of religion lets the religious have their rights to practice, many times to the detriment of others. We need to reinforce we also have a freedom from religion to prevent that.
Many countries do not allow for either. And one without the other is problematic.

Many countries oppress people. It is just too deep to discuss so shallowly.

Bottomline is, perspectives change due to circumstances. Whats important to you may not be important at all to some other person living somewhere else. Maybe your own neighbour will have a completely different experience to you, and that too depends on where you live.

This is way too subjective to provide such an objective answer.

 

[Mock Turtle]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

It has to be freedom from religion for me (although I voted balance), given that I don't see how imposing religious beliefs on others, as perhaps in a theocracy, can have anything positive as a principle, other than for those having the particular religious belief. And which usually results in the various countries we see having predominantly one belief amongst the population - and often enforced by education and/or culture. Perhaps we would have had less conflict during our history if we had been more tolerant of the religious beliefs or lack of them for so many rather trying to impose them on others. But then that tends to be inherent in so many religions - the need to spread so as to reach all, even if the all might not want such.

 

[Firelight]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

This is an interesting question. People who truly desire freedom from religion won’t be hanging out on religious forums. They will live their life and ignore it all, unless they live in a country where they will be punished for not participating in their government’s, or some other type of, forced religion.

Freedom of religion and freedom from religion can actually mean the same thing.

With regards to your question, what type of freedom from religion are you speaking of?

 

[Firelight]

I don't see how you can have freedom of religion if you don't have the freedom to be protected from having others force their religion onto you.

But to answer your question, since I don't practice any religion it's more important to me to be protected from religions that others might try and force onto me than for me to have the freedom to practice a religion.

What do you mean by “force?” I understand “force” to mean a person either participates in this religion or gets punished, like going to jail, receiving serious bodily harm, or being fined.

 

[Eddi]

With regards to your question, what type of freedom from religion are you speaking of?

I was thinking the right not to be forced to follow a religion - like I was at primary school where we HAD to sing Christian hymns every morning in assembly (as a child I was a strong and sophisticated atheist and resented this, even at a very young age)

And also the right to be left alone by aggressive/pestering proselytising

Basically, I think religion should be voluntary and proselytising passive and un-invasive

 

[Firelight]

To me, a balance means religious organizations need complete transparency, and also need to be held to the same standards as private industry.

- Adults working with kids need to have background checks, and youth protection training
- counseling only allowed by trained licensed professionals
- complete transparency for all donations and funding
- no tax breaks for missionary work or solicitation ← that is not service.
- if there are tax breaks, buildings should be considered public (similar to public schools) for use in any emergency or used for things like voting.
- hate speech and discrimination not allowed - if it is not open to all then it should not be tax-free.
- anti-science, anti-medical → keeping medical care and education from children should not be allowed.

The problem with that is once government regulations are imposed on churches/religious institutions, freedom of religion no longer exists. Your list of regulations doesn’t provide freedom from religion, either.

 

[Firelight]

I was thinking the right not to be forced to follow a religion - like I was at primary school where we HAD to sing Christian hymns every morning in assembly (as a child I was a strong and sophisticated atheist and resented this, even at a very young age)

And also the right to be left alone by aggressive/pestering proselytising

Basically, I think religion should be voluntary and proselytising passive and un-invasive

Did you go to a public or a private school?

I would be resistant to having to sing every day regardless of the types of songs.

 

[Eddi]

Did you go to a public or a private school?

I would be resistant to having to sing every day regardless of the types of songs.

a public school

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem with that is once government regulations are imposed on churches/religious institutions, freedom of religion no longer exists. Your list of regulations doesn’t provide freedom from religion, either.

If those regulations are about preventing the religious institutions from imposing their beliefs on non-adherents (edit: or about preventing the institutions ftom forcing adherents to stay), then they increase religious freedom more than they limit it.

 

[Firelight]

Both are important.

Freedom of religion to practice it and believe.

Freedom from religion to not have to practice or believe.

Freedom of religion provides both of those.

 

[ChristineM]

That is but a given frame of reference.

All people have the potential of virtue.

That is how we should view every person and let's encourage the good from all.

The balance is only found when we do this.

Regards Tony

Yes they do, unfortunately not all those potentially good people actually are good, nor do they want to be good to anyone's standard but their own. And would see such encouragement as interference

 

[ChristineM]

To have no religion is a choice in a religious world. Thus one is only asking the right to follow that direction.

Then you have the majority. They set the laws. The Bahai are only to ready to abide by those laws and do, the issue is when the law is not applied to all people of all faiths or no faith eaually across the board.

So I see your Wow is just acknowledging that people must abide by the given laws.

There is no Faith to date, or even a position of no God, that has shown us we do not need to work together.

Regards Tony

This just does not make any sense to me and my wow just wow seems very appropriate

As i said before, choosing no religion can mean execution in some religions
.
The issue is that different countries have different laws. Some of those countries are governed by religion so their laws are not always best for everyone

Ehm, it seems that no god is the default position of humanity. Working together developed civilisation to grow which allowed religion to develop

 

[ChristineM]

Freedom of religion provides both of those.

Not always.

 

[icehorse]

What is most important to you?

Freedom of religion or freedom from religion?

I think that a balance needs to be struck

Mutual tolerance and respect are I think good guides to achieving such a balance

I fail to see why this should be any flavor of "either / or" ??

 

[QuestioningMind]

What do you mean by “force?” I understand “force” to mean a person either participates in this religion or gets punished, like going to jail, receiving serious bodily harm, or being fined.

It can be as obvious as all that, but it can also be more subtle. It can be as simple as being shunned in society for being a nonbeliever. Or it can be reflected in having laws passed based strictly on people's religious beliefs.