Freedom is better than Life

[Estro Felino]

To me it is kind of a tough call.
Hard to fight for anything if you are dead.

To save people you care about sure. For an idea, I don't know.
There's no guarantee that when you die your ideas won't die with you.
While you are alive at least you can continue to act. Maybe do some good in furthering your cause.

I suppose dying for an idea at least creates a good narrative for others. In Jesus' case, Christianity seems to have done as much harm as it's done good. If Jesus had lived to continue to teach perhaps we would now have a different Christianity.

I think some people misread the thread title
I do not mean that death is better than freedom.
I mean that our goal is to make life worth living by fighting for freedom.
So...sure...fighting for making life beautiful and good, is the first thing to do.
But not at cost of freedom's sake.

 

[Estro Felino]

I was reading The Drowned and the Saved by Primo Levi.
I think that if I had been a war prisoner, I would have been killed immediately.
I will not bow to the servants of Evil (in that case, Nazis).
I would have rebelled, and they would have shot me right away.
Death does not scare me. Bowing to evil scares me.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

I think that words are complex and problematic.

I think that the difference between standing for what you believe in and fighting for it, can at times be as crucial as that between dying for what you believe in and killing for it.

I think that you live by the ideals of Christ when - even in face of those fighting and killing for what they believe - we stand for what you believe. And, I think that at times, doing so could get you killed.

I note that the ideal of Jesus was crucified by people fighting and killing for what they believed.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Aupmanyav]

He happened to have a following that exaggerated some stories about him after he died.

If they did, they might have done it for their own reasons, not necessarily for what Jesus died for. For example, Bab's legacy was taken over by Bahaollah.

Indeed. It is also my understanding that Jesus liked turtles.

Are turtles kosher? But Jesus could always say that there is a new covenant now.

 

[Estro Felino]

I note that the ideal of Jesus was crucified by people fighting and killing for what they believed.

As a Christian I believe that there only two kinds of people. The wicked and the just.
The perpetrators and the victims.

Jesus killed nobody. He was killed.
It is the demonstration you can live a life without k
harming anybody.

You learn of evil only and whenever a person is harmed by another person.
I would rather die than victimizing someone.

 

[Kooky]

As a Christian I believe that there only two kinds of people. The wicked and the just.
The perpetrators and the victims.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I find that a rather horrifying view of the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would rather kill than be a victim.

 

[Estro Felino]

Please don't take this the wrong way but I find that a rather horrifying view of the world.

I am quoting the Gospel

 

[Kooky]

I am quoting the Gospel

I don't see how that changes anything.

 

[Kooky]

I would rather kill than be a victim.

I would neither kill nor be a victim, but rather free myself from the tyranny of false binaries.