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Free Will

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Polymath257, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Most of what we do, doesn't really seem to be a result of free will. We don't freely choose what to believe in and not. Like I didn't choose to be an atheist, I didn't choose to prefer chocolate ice cream over some other flavor.

    For the most part I would say that free will is nothing but an illusion or something constructed as a respond to our environment and surroundings.
     
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  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    free will is the difference between making choices between service to self and service to all as self. the service to self isn't going to accept the freedom of choice, free will of other as self. In fact, it is going to try to enslave, dominate, manipulate the other as any object that it tries or does possess. this can be accomplished explicitly by violence, physical abuse, or implicitly via psychological warfare, manipulation, control.

    the service to self path is much harder to accomplish. most do not readily accept violence, aggression as a healthy thing towards them; unless they are already part of the upper hierarchy. in the service to self physical differences are magnified and accentuated to ensure hierarchies of inequality, self-imposed superiority, and discrimination . in the service to all as self, hierarchies are only based on ability and mentoring capabilities. basically a meritocracy.
     
    #62 Fool, Nov 27, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
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  3. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Programming is often contrasted with mindfulness. Your willful behaviour is what informs your habits. Where it comes from, I cannot say. Thich Nhat Hanh called mindfulness "a miracle."
     
  4. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    What makes one addict or alcoholic finally choose sobriety, when so many don’t or can’t? That almost seems an unanswerable question. For what it’s worth, I count it a miracle that I woke up one day and finally knew, I’d had enough of this and was ready to ask for help. In a way, it was as if the decision was made for me; I’ve been to funerals of friends who never had that moment.

    I would say, from my own experience, that the best way to find peace and contentment in this life is to align as far as possible, one’s own will to the will of the Universe. I know you don’t like the idea of the universe having a purpose, but it certainly has patterns - precise and beautiful unfolding patterns, to which we each contribute.
     
  5. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    While i agree that we do not choose our beliefs, i disagree that the lack of choice in our beliefs evidences that "most of what we do doesn't seem to be the result of free will." Can you choose to think about an issue? Can you rationalize? If so, then free will must exist.
     
  6. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    That is what im not so sure is possible. Can I think of an issue without it somehow being influenced or a result of something in my environment or surroundings and then rationalize about it? Im not sure and It might sound obvious that, of course we can do that.

    But most likely, I wouldn't even think of an issue, because it wouldn't be relevant. So when you ask me, which again is also you influencing me to do it, and as a result of you asking me, I might think of something, which I believe is an issue, such as climate change, and I can only rationalize about it, based on knowledge I have obtained about it and that knowledge have led me to be convinced that climate change is true. We can't really choose to avoid information, if I ask your opinion about something, for which you have never thought of, then you are aware of it and your opinion about it, will be based on whatever former or relevant information you think will answer it and that will reflect your view, but were you truly "free" reaching that opinion?
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I think you are mistaking any influencing with wholly influencing. Surely we all agree that our environment plays a role in both our thoughts and our ability to rationalize. The question is do we have any control. To dismiss free will is to conclude that one has no degree of control over thoughts or actions.

    People can suggest they believe this, but I am very, very skeptical that such a belief is even possible.
     
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  8. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Depends how you look at it, for me personally, I would say that I have free will for the most part, but whether or not its technically is the case or not, doesn't really change the fact, that my perception of free will is there and that is what matters.

    So its important to look at it from both angles I think.
    Your brain makes up its mind up to ten seconds before you realize it, according to researchers. By looking at brain activity while making a decision, the researchers could predict what choice people would make before they themselves were even aware of having made a decision.

    The work calls into question the ‘consciousness’ of our decisions and may even challenge ideas about how ‘free’ we are to make a choice at a particular point in time.

    Brain makes decisions before you even know it - Nature

    Benjamin Libet, which showed that the brain begins preparing for movement even before we consciously decide to move. Until then, scientists thought that a person makes a conscious decision to act, and then the brain sends signals to the body that enables us to take that action.

    Obviously we are not aware of this in our everyday lives, but what does that mean for free will? That is interesting to think about, how free are we exactly?
     
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