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Featured Free Will

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. 1137

    1137 Thelemite
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    Influence =/= determination.
     
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  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    ?????

    The roll of determinism in nature and human nature is based on the objective verifiable evidence, as well as evidence against libertarian Free Will. The current knowledge of humanity does not conclusively determine that human nature of choices is mechanistically deterministic, but it demonstrates that determinism dominates.
     
    #22 shunyadragon, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    More about spirit than mind. It's what it says it is. Free will. The ability to do what you will. Of course, skeptics often take it to the extreme to make it look false, it doesn't mean that if you will it you can fly, free will within the limits of human abilities.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    ?????
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The roll of determinism in nature and human nature is based on the objective verifiable evidence, as well as evidence against libertarian Free Will. The current knowledge of humanity does not conclusively determine that human nature of choices is mechanistically deterministic, but it demonstrates that determinism dominates.
     
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  6. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Could you give an example of this?
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    why would that be an issue? all knowing and all being?


    schrodinger has already shown that both states of a dead/live cat are possible. only when the idea is tested does it appear. so then all states are possible but not all states are being manifested until choice is made
     
  8. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Free Will is the idea of autonomy from God, gods, the universe, and especially Fate.
     
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  9. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Only the manifested state is reality.
     
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  10. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Free will: the ability to choose between available options.

    ..............including the consequences of that choice. If 'will' were not 'free,' no coercion or influence would be required.

    For instance, if a robber kidnaps the family of a bank president and tells him that if he doesn't let the robbers into the bank vault, his family's lives are forfeit, that doesn't eliminate the banker's free will; he can still choose not to allow the robbers into the vault. He probably wouldn't make that choice, but he COULD. That's why the threat is being made in the first place.

    I get the feeling that to many people, 'free will' means that one can choose to do anything at all, without influence from outside his own head, and without consequences. That's not 'free will.' That's chaos.

    But when one has a selection of choices in front of him, and one examines the influences and the consequences of each one, and then chooses one of them, that is indeed free will.

    Or at least as free as anybody can get.

    IMO, of course.
     
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    This site deals with the extremes, which I do not agree with.

    The Great Debate: Determinism and Free Will

    Most scientific sources agree with the dominance of natural determinism but disagree on the nature of free will. Of course I accept the fact that you do not accept science and prefer religious doctrine, and dogma and literal Bible, I do not believe scientific references would be any meaning to you in the dialogue, nor any dialogue when comes to your religious beliefs and science.
    See: Varieties of Free Will and Determinism
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    self-determination can go against god, or gods.
     
  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    all forms are temporal. reality is ever changing
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    True in a way regardless of what we personally believe, but incomplete, and needs more explanation,
     
    #34 shunyadragon, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  15. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    all created things are potential energy and all energy is potential created things.reality is that the temporal things transform into something else. so reality is no less kinetic than it is potential.
     
    #35 Fool, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  16. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    In what way
    Considering that determinism has not been shown to be the unequivocal operative behind events, asserting that "determinism dominates" implies their are instances where it is not at work or where it is only partially at work. What instances do you have in mind?

    .
     
    #36 Skwim, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  17. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Isn't that free will?
     
  18. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Nevertheless.
     
  19. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Will means what person wants. And free will means person can freely want whatever he wants. It doesn’t mean everything always go as wanted, it means person can want even things that are not possible.
     
  20. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So will couldn't mean what a person doesn't want?

    Consider:

    I want a Dixon #2 pencil for Christmas = willing what a person wants
    I don't want a Dixon #2 pencil for Christmas = willing what a person doesn't want​

    So, as you imply, will is synonymous with want. Question now is, why does a person want or not want a Dixon #2 pencil for Christmas. What is behind/motivating the particular wanting?

    .
     
    #40 Skwim, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
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